Realizing Something Weird About Rationals in [0,1]

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In summary, Laura realizes something weird about the set of rationals in [0,1]. This set, called Q, is Borel and can be covered by open sets of total measure less than or equal to 1. However, it can also be covered by open sets of total measure less than or equal to 1/2. This is strange because the rationals are dense in the irrationals, yet you could leave 999/1000 of the irrationals out of the open cover. This observation is one way of showing that the set of real numbers between 0 and 1 is uncountable.
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lark
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I realized something weird.
That, suppose you take the rationals in [0,1], call this set [tex]Q.[/tex] [tex]Q[/tex]'s a Borel set, so if [tex]\mu[/tex] is Lebesgue measure, [tex]\mu(Q)=inf(\mu(V), V [/tex]open,[tex] Q \subset V).[/tex]
[tex]Q[/tex] can be covered by open sets of total measure [tex]\le 1[/tex] by counting the rationals; cover the first rational by an interval size 1/2, the second by an interval size 1/4 ...
But, [tex]Q[/tex] can also be covered by open sets of total measure [tex]\le 1/2[/tex] in the same way. Or by an open covering of arbitrarily small total measure ...
It's strange considering that the rationals are dense in the irrationals. Yet you could leave 999/1000 of the irrationals out of the open cover ...
Laura
 
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  • #2
lark said:
It's strange considering that the rationals are dense in the irrationals. Yet you could leave 999/1000 of the irrationals out of the open cover ...

Hi Laura! :smile:

Why is that strange?

Measure is supposed to be like weighing …

if you tipped all the rationals into a pan and weighed them, you wouldn't expect them to weigh anything, would you? :wink:
 
  • #3
So you're surrounding each rational in [0,1] by an open interval; the rationals are dense in [0,1]; yet it can be arranged so practically all (say 999999 out of a million) of the irrationals are not covered by one of the open intervals. That's what is weird.
Laura
 
  • #4
This observation (rationals are a set of measure zero) is one way of showing that the set of real numbers between 0 and 1 is uncountable. This is useful for those who don't like Cantor's diagonal proof.
 

FAQ: Realizing Something Weird About Rationals in [0,1]

What are rationals in [0,1]?

Rationals in [0,1] are numbers that can be expressed as a ratio of two integers, with the numerator and denominator both being whole numbers, and with a decimal representation that ends or repeats.

What is the significance of realizing something weird about rationals in [0,1]?

The significance of realizing something weird about rationals in [0,1] is that it challenges our understanding of numbers and their properties, and can lead to new discoveries and insights in mathematics.

What is the "weird" thing about rationals in [0,1]?

The "weird" thing about rationals in [0,1] is that despite there being an infinite number of rational numbers in this interval, there are also an infinite number of irrational numbers, meaning that the two sets have the same cardinality.

How does this realization impact our understanding of real numbers?

This realization challenges the traditional understanding of real numbers as being made up of only rational and irrational numbers, and highlights the complexities and nuances of these sets and their relationships.

Can you provide an example of a "weird" rational number in [0,1]?

Yes, an example of a "weird" rational number in [0,1] is 0.101001000100001000001... where the pattern of adding 0s after each 1 continues infinitely. This number is rational because it can be expressed as the ratio 1/9, but it also has an infinite number of digits after the decimal point, making it appear more like an irrational number.

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