Red shift of light and expanding universe - Your help needed.

In summary, the conversation discusses the concept of Doppler's effect and its implications for the color of light emitted from a moving object. The speaker presents a hypothetical scenario where a star moving towards Earth would emit blue-shifted light, leading to the conclusion that the universe may not be expanding. However, other participants in the conversation point out flaws in this reasoning, including the fact that energy and momentum are subject to Lorentz transformation and the difference between the relativistic Doppler effect and cosmological redshift. The conversation also brings up the question of whether there is sufficient evidence to confirm the expansion of the universe.
  • #1
royp
55
22
This relates to Doppler's effect.

The phenomenon: It is quite simple and says that light emitted from a moving object will be redshifted when the object is moving away from us (earth) and blueshifted when the object is moving towards us (earth). I was thinking of this phenomenon and arrived at some unexplainable conclusions. Looks like there are some flaws in the reasoning but I am unable to find it.

I need your help in uncovering the flaw.

The scenario: We will consider the following hypothetical scenario. A star is moving towards the earth. Then the light coming from the star will be blue-shifted.Now, more formally, suppose, an element X on the surface of the star is in state S and emitting monochromatic Red light with frequency v1. If we write the corresponding energy equation,

E1 = hv1 (from Planck's law, h is Planck's constant)

Now, due to reference frame invariance, had we brought the same element X in state S on the surface of the earth, it will emit the same red light with the same frequency. In other words, had it been brought to earth, it would have satisfied the same energy equation viz.

E1 = hv1.

Now, as the star is moving towards us, this red light emitted from element X will appear to an observer on Earth as blue-shifted Suppose. the frequency of the light beam is v2. So, the corresponding energy equation is:

E2 = hv2

Now, v2 > v1 (As the light is blue-shifted)

=> hv2 > hv1

=> E2 > E1

In other words, the beam of light (appears to) have more energy when received on Earth than when it started from the star.

But the question is: who has provided this additional energy and when?

There is quite likely some flaw in the above line of thought. But assuming that the above reasoning is correct, then we will be forced to conclude that so called blue shifting is not happening.

Then, as a logical extension of the above reasoning, red-shifting is also not tenable.

Which will bring us to the big question: Is the universe really expanding? Or at any rate, Is there sufficient evidence to conclusively say that the universe is really expanding? That in turn, will bring in bigger questions on Big Bang etc.
 
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  • #2
royp said:
But the question is: who has provided this additional energy and when?

The kinetic energy of the emitting system, which decreased by the same amount due to the recoil from the momentum of the photon.
 
  • #3
Guys,

Thanks for your help. Some of you have gone through the above post. I presume that you didn't find the argument presented is flawed. That boosted my confidence. I have now rearranged things more formally and would be sending as a paper for publication.

royp
 
  • #4
Two comments:

Energy alone is not conserved when changing reference frames; energy and momentum are subject to Lorentz transformation; their values change in a similar way as time and distance change in special relativity.

Even if it may not be obvious: the relativistic Doppler effect due to relative motion between source and detector and cosmological redshift due to expansion of space are two different effects and results in different formulas!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshift#Difference_from_a_Doppler_effect
 

FAQ: Red shift of light and expanding universe - Your help needed.

What is the red shift of light?

The red shift of light refers to the phenomenon where light from distant galaxies appears to be shifted towards the red end of the spectrum. This is caused by the expansion of the universe, which stretches the wavelengths of light as it travels through space.

How does the red shift of light support the idea of an expanding universe?

As the light from distant galaxies is shifted towards the red end of the spectrum, it indicates that the galaxies are moving away from us. This is a key piece of evidence for the expanding universe theory, as it suggests that the space between galaxies is getting larger over time.

What is the relationship between the red shift of light and the Doppler effect?

The red shift of light is a result of the Doppler effect, which is a change in the frequency and wavelength of a wave as the source of the wave moves towards or away from an observer. In the case of the red shift, the source (galaxy) is moving away from the observer (Earth), causing the light waves to become stretched and appear more red.

Can the red shift of light be used to measure the expansion of the universe?

Yes, the red shift of light can be used to measure the expansion of the universe. By observing the amount of red shift in light from distant galaxies, scientists can calculate how fast those galaxies are moving away from us, and therefore determine the rate of expansion of the universe.

Is the red shift of light always caused by the expansion of the universe?

No, the red shift of light can also be caused by other factors such as the gravitational pull of nearby objects. This is known as gravitational red shift. However, the majority of red shift observed in distant galaxies is due to the expansion of the universe.

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