Regarding the inductance model

In summary, the conversation discusses the behavior of an inductor when the switch is suddenly turned off. The voltage over the inductor can potentially reach negative infinity, but this is not physically possible since voltage is defined as energy per charge. The energy stored in the inductor is finite and can be calculated using the equation El = L*i^2/2. Combining this equation with the voltage equation, V = -L*di/dt, leads to a complicated and poorly defined problem. Therefore, the conversation suggests adding a capacitance to make the problem well defined or considering a different scenario, such as substituting the battery with a short circuit. The main point of the conversation is to explore the limitations of the Ldi/dt model
  • #1
MechatronO
30
1
The inductor below is conducting an arbitrary current, with the switch on.

rlcircuit.gif


Suddenly the switch is set off and and voltage over the inductor raises to the negative infinity according to

Vl = L*di/dt

However, voltage is defined as energy per charge.

V=J/C
The energy stored "in" the inductor is finit and

El = L*i^2/2

Combining these equations, would the voltage instead then raise to

Vl = L*i^2/(2*C) ?

Where C is the sum of all free charges or something, relevant for the equation?

I guess what I've wrote above is far to simplified to describe what would happen, but let's consider this thought experiment also.

Imagine that there are only two relevant charges in the whole system. When the current is switched off, this would get an infinite potential energy distributed on a finite number of charge.
This would thus have inifinite energy created out of a finite amount of energy, thus the Vl=Ldi/dt model must begin to show serious flaws at some point?

EDIT: And no we don't consider things such as parasitic capacitance, eddy current or anything like that here.
 
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  • #2
MechatronO said:
Vl = L*di/dt
Should be: V = -L*di/dt

The energy stored "in" the inductor is finit and

El = L*i^2/2
Should be: Energy = L*i^2/2

EI does not have units of energy.

Combining these equations,
 
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  • #3
The problem with this problem is that it is not well defined or very complicated to solve. Just opening the switch gives you a situation of an open circuit, and you don't know what happens. You can treat the opened switch as a capacitor with some assumed capacitance to make the problem well defined. It could of course get worse and you have a spark across the opened switch, because in the very first moment a very large EMF is induced in the circuit.

Another possibility is to switch such that the battery is substituted by a shorc-circuit at the moment you switch and then kept. Imho that would make the most sensible question and a good exercise in integrating quasistationary initial-value problems in circuit theory.
 
  • #4
NascentOxygen: Ei sure does have the dimension energy.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/indeng.html

vanhees71: Let's assume no capacitance at all and that the voltage could reach to infinity therefore.

Why would changing the battey to a short circuit at the moment of switching off change the situation?

The point of all this is not really to study a practical circuit, but just a curiosity to see wether the Ldi/dt model has a shortcoming or non defined result, as ohm's model (law) has when R reaches zero in

I = U/R
 
  • #5
MechatronO said:
NascentOxygen: Ei sure does have the dimension energy.
If E is potential and I is current, EI does not have units of energy.
 
  • #6
Aha, you see i in El i just the letter E with a badly implemented subscript L, representing energy in the inductor L. EL would be better, as I even myself confused i with L in the last post.
 

FAQ: Regarding the inductance model

What is the inductance model?

The inductance model is a theoretical concept within the field of electromagnetism that describes the ability of an electrical circuit to store energy in the form of a magnetic field. It is represented by the symbol L and is measured in units of henries (H).

How does inductance affect electrical circuits?

Inductance can affect electrical circuits in several ways. It can cause a delay in the current flow, known as inductive reactance, and can also limit the flow of high frequency currents. Inductance can also cause voltage spikes when the current flow is suddenly interrupted.

What factors determine the inductance of a circuit?

The inductance of a circuit is determined by several factors, including the number of turns in a coil, the size and shape of the coil, the type of material used for the core, and the distance between the coil and the core.

How is inductance different from resistance and capacitance?

Inductance, resistance, and capacitance are all properties of electrical circuits, but they have different effects. Resistance limits the flow of current, while capacitance stores energy in the form of an electric field. Inductance, as mentioned earlier, stores energy in the form of a magnetic field.

How is inductance used in practical applications?

Inductance is used in a variety of practical applications, including inductors for filtering and smoothing signals in electronic circuits, transformers for stepping up or stepping down voltage, and motors and generators for converting electrical energy into mechanical energy and vice versa.

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