Regular and not regular Language

In summary, the conversation discusses the concept of sets of natural numbers and their representations in different bases. It also mentions the regularity of these representations and provides an example of a set for which $L_2(K)$ is regular but $L_3(K)$ is not. The conversation concludes with a discussion about proving the non-regularity of $L_3(K)$ and the limitations of providing further help with the problem.
  • #1
mathmari
Gold Member
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Hey! :eek:

If $K$ is a set of natural numbers and $b$ is a natural number greater than $1$, let $$L_b(K)=\{w \mid w \text{ is the representation in base } b \text{ of some number in } K\}$$
Leading $0$s are not allowed in the representation of a number.
For example, $L_2(\{3, 5\})=\{11, 101\}$ and $L_3(\{3, 5\})=\{10, 12\}$.
Give an example of a set $K$ for which $L_2(K)$ is regular but $L_3(K)$ is not regular. Prove that your example works.

I am confused... How can $L_i$ be regular when $L_j$ is not regular? (Wondering)

Could you explain it to me? (Wondering)
 
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  • #2
Congratulations on your 1000 posts!

There is a page on CS StackExchange about your question, but it requires some effort to grasp.
 
  • #3
Evgeny.Makarov said:
Congratulations on your 1000 posts!

Thank you! (Happy)
For the set $K=\{2^i, i\in \mathbb{N}\}=\{2,4,8, \dots \}$ we have $L_2(K)=\{10,100,1000, \dots \}$ which is regular since it is accepted by the regular expression $10^+$, right?

So we have to show that for this set $L_3(K)$ is not regular. To do that do we have to apply the pumping lemma? Or is there also an other way?
 
  • #4
mathmari said:
For the set $K=\{2^i, i\in \mathbb{N}\}=\{2,4,8, \dots \}$ we have $L_2(K)=\{10,100,1000, \dots \}$ which is regular since it is accepted by the regular expression $10^+$, right?
Yes.

mathmari said:
So we have to show that for this set $L_3(K)$ is not regular. To do that do we have to apply the pumping lemma? Or is there also an other way?
The StackExchange page contains a couple of proofs, but I have not studied them carefully. In my opinion, this problem goes somewhat beyond the necessary minimum a student is supposed to take from the theory of computation course. It is more like a challenge problem. Since what I am prepared to give is a "marginal legal advice" (a slogan from a popular American radio show about legal matters), I can't promise further help with this problem.
 

Related to Regular and not regular Language

1. What is the difference between a regular and not regular language?

A regular language is a type of formal language that can be generated by a regular expression or described by a finite automaton. It follows a specific set of rules and patterns, making it easier to recognize and manipulate. On the other hand, a not regular language does not have a set of rules or patterns that can be defined, making it more complex and difficult to work with.

2. How can regular and not regular languages be represented?

Regular languages can be represented using regular expressions, finite automata, or regular grammars. These representations allow for easy recognition and manipulation of the language. Not regular languages, however, cannot be represented in a similar way due to their complexity. They may require more advanced methods, such as context-free grammars or Turing machines, for representation.

3. What are some examples of regular and not regular languages?

Examples of regular languages include simple patterns such as (a|b)*, which represents a language of all strings consisting of only the letters a and b. Not regular languages, on the other hand, can be much more complex and varied. Some examples include the language of palindromes (strings that read the same forward and backward), or the language of all valid expressions in a programming language.

4. How are regular and not regular languages used in computer science?

Regular languages are often used in computer science for tasks such as text processing, lexical analysis, and pattern matching. They are also used in the design of programming languages and compilers. Not regular languages, although more difficult to work with, are also used in computer science for tasks such as parsing and code generation.

5. Can a not regular language be converted into a regular language?

No, a not regular language cannot be converted into a regular language. This is because not regular languages are inherently more complex and do not have a set of rules or patterns that can be defined. While some not regular languages may have regular subsets, the entire language itself cannot be represented as a regular language.

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