Relating classical and relativistic energy&work

Click For Summary
The discussion explores the relationship between classical and relativistic concepts of work and energy, emphasizing the differences in how total energy is defined in both frameworks. In classical physics, total energy combines kinetic and potential energy, while in relativity, it includes a term for internal energy represented by the Lorentz factor gamma. Participants note that the relativistic total energy does not converge to the classical total energy at low speeds, raising questions about the role of internal energy in each framework. The conversation also touches on the treatment of electromagnetic forces and the necessity of considering unchanging fields for the analogy to hold. Ultimately, the dialogue highlights the complexities and nuances in transitioning from classical to relativistic physics.
Wox
Messages
68
Reaction score
0
Can work and energy in special relativity be described by drawing the analogy with classical physics as shown below?

\bar{F}: four force
\bar{v}: four velocity
\tilde{F}: classical three force
\tilde{v}: classical three velocity
\Psi: electromagnetic tensor

A. Classical
The work done by the classical force \tilde{F} as derived in classical physics
W(t)=\int_{t_{0}}^{t} \tilde{F}\cdot \tilde{v} dt=m\int_{t_{0}}^{t} \frac{d\tilde{v}}{dt}\cdot \tilde{v} dt=m\int_{\tilde{v}(t_{0})}^{\tilde{v}(t)} \tilde{v}d\tilde{v}=\frac{m\tilde{v}(t)^{2}}{2}-\frac{m\tilde{v}(t_{0})^{2}}{2}

Furthermore if \tilde{F} is conservative then (using the gradient theorem)
W(t)=\int_{t_{0}}^{t} \tilde{F}\cdot \tilde{v} dt=-\int_{t_{0}}^{t} \tilde{\nabla}E_{pot}\cdot \tilde{v} dt=-\Delta E_{pot}

From this we define the total energy of an object in a force field as
E_{tot}(t)=\frac{m\tilde{v}(t)^{2}}{2}+E_{pot}(t) \equiv E_{kin}(t)+E_{pot}(t)

A. Relativistic
I will try to do the same thing as in classical physics, but now using these relativistic relations:
  1. Relation between four and three force:
    \bar{F}=(mc\gamma\frac{d\gamma}{dt},m\gamma\frac{d\gamma\tilde{v}}{dt})
    \bar{F}=q\Psi \bar{v}
    \Leftrightarrow \bar{F}=(mc\gamma\frac{d\gamma}{dt},\gamma\tilde{F}) where \tilde{F}=q(\tilde{E}+\tilde{v}\times\tilde{B})
  2. Four force and four velocity are orthogonal:
    \bar{v}=(c\gamma,\gamma\tilde{v})
    <\bar{F},\bar{v}>=0\Leftrightarrow \tilde{F}\cdot \tilde{v}=mc^{2}\frac{d\gamma}{dt}

The work done by the classical force \tilde{F} as derived in special relativity
W(t)=\int_{t_{0}}^{t} \tilde{F}\cdot \tilde{v} dt=mc^{2}\int_{\gamma(t_{0})}^{\gamma(t)}d\gamma=m\gamma(t)c^{2}-m\gamma(t_{0})c^{2}

Furthermore if \tilde{F} is conservative then (using the gradient theorem)
W(t)=\int_{t_{0}}^{t} \tilde{F}\cdot \tilde{v} dt=-\int_{t_{0}}^{t} \tilde{\nabla}E_{pot}\cdot \tilde{v} dt=-\Delta E_{pot}

From this we define the total energy of an object in a force field as
E_{tot}(t)=m\gamma(t)c^{2}+E_{pot}(t) \equiv mc^{2}+E_{kin}(t)+E_{pot}(t)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I didn't spot any obvious errors (doesn't mean that I didn't miss some). Note that if you try to apply this approach to electromagnetic forces, it will work only insofar as you have an unchanging electromagnetic field that isn't affected by the motion of the test particle, as there is no concept yet of "field energy" in the approach you outlined.

You can go a bit further with a Lagrangian approach, see for instance Goldstein "Classical Mechanics".
 
My main problem is that the relativistic E_{tot} doesn't converge to the classical E_{tot} for low speeds, meaning that they aren't describing the same thing. I think it has something to do with taking internal energy into account or not. But why does it pop-up in the relativistic E_{tot} and not in the classical E_{tot}?
 
Last edited:
Wox said:
My main problem is that the relativistic E_{tot} doesn't converge to the classical E_{tot} for low speeds, meaning that they aren't describing the same thing. I think it has something to do with taking internal energy into account or not. But why does it pop-up in the relativistic E_{tot} and not in the classical E_{tot}?

The classial Etot usually omits the internal energy, since it doesn't change in lots of problems. It does change in inelastic collisions, however.

Chet
 
But how is it that the internal energy pops-up in the relativistic analogue to the classical definition of energy, while it doesn't in the classical definition? I mean, I can see that it does pop up, but why? The difference between the classical and the relativistic is the presence of \gamma in \tilde{F}=m\frac{d\gamma\tilde{v}}{dt}. Is there a way to understand that if we omit \gamma, we're "neglecting the internal energy" in some way.
 
Last edited:
Wox said:
But how is it that the internal energy pops-up in the relativistic analogue to the classical definition of energy, while it doesn't in the classical definition? I mean, I can see that it does pop up, but why? The difference between the classical and the relativistic is the presence of \gamma in \tilde{F}=m\frac{d\gamma\tilde{v}}{dt}. Is there a way to understand that if we omit \gamma, we're "neglecting the internal energy" in some way.

No. The classical treatment frequently omits the internal energy in mechanics problems because it often does not change. However, in general thermodynamics analyses, the internal energy, the kinetic energy, and the potential energy are all typically included in the energy balance. However, the thermodynamic analyses only look at changes in total energy, and not its absolute value. It took Einstein to realize that, for a given frame of reference, the total energy can be regarded as an absolute quantity like absolute temperature, and that the absolute internal energy is equal to mc2.
 
In an inertial frame of reference (IFR), there are two fixed points, A and B, which share an entangled state $$ \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}(|0>_A|1>_B+|1>_A|0>_B) $$ At point A, a measurement is made. The state then collapses to $$ |a>_A|b>_B, \{a,b\}=\{0,1\} $$ We assume that A has the state ##|a>_A## and B has ##|b>_B## simultaneously, i.e., when their synchronized clocks both read time T However, in other inertial frames, due to the relativity of simultaneity, the moment when B has ##|b>_B##...

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 38 ·
2
Replies
38
Views
1K
  • · Replies 55 ·
2
Replies
55
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
2K