- #1
BenkeiDNA
- 6
- 0
- TL;DR Summary
- metals, reactions, flashes, iron, magnesium, aluminium, molten, fire, colors.
I work for municipality with urban management and i have a interest for the environment, and have become fascinated with metals. Together with a engineer i will be making a report about metal reactions etc. So i would like to get you guys take on these questions that i have in mind for my report.
1. When you have flashes from metals that are burning, like from magnesium, aluminium or iron, how often should you see the flashes, and what will the duration of the flashes be?, can any of these 3 metals when molten flash 6 times in let's say 8 seconds?, with the longest duration of one flash beeing 0.87s?. And is it possible for any molten material falling in the air to give off these flashes because of rapid vaporization of the water in the air when the water vapor in the air is at normal levels of 68% RH and not 100% RH or is this extremely unlikely?.
2. If within minutes the oxygen in a fire zone is depleted, and you have some molten iron pouring, could metallic alloy magnesium get mixed somehow with the molten iron in a fire, and while the molten iron was pouring and flowing in the air with a orange color, could the alloy magnesium then from the falling and flowing molten iron in the air make a couple, let's say 6 flashes, in short time of 8 seconds, white flashes from inside of the molten iron?, like the burning specks of burning magnesium in a foundry with oxygen that flash white while they burn?, or is this not how alloy magnesium behave?. I am told that a magnesium rod, about 1 cm in diameter, will not ignite in a Bunsen burner flame, even with prolonged heating. Magnesium burns to produce magnesium oxide. That product is quite inert by normal conditions. It does not flash nor will it burn, i am told.
3. And my next question about magnesium is not about any flash effect, but about a flame effect. If you have an unusual flame visible within a office fire, a very bright white flame, as opposed to the typical yellow or orange surrounding regular flames, this would suggest that some type of metal is burning, i know aluminum will burn, but in normal fires it usually melts instead because the metal surface is protected by an oxide layer that must be breeched before ignition can take place. Aluminium oxide melts at 2072C that typical office fires will not reach. But do you think that the burning of alloy magnesium in a regular office fire could explain a very bright white flame?. I am told that metallic magnesium can be difficult to ignite depending on it thickness. That a magnesium rod, about 1 cm in diameter, will not ignite in a Bunsen burner flame, even with prolonged heating. Magnesium burns to produce magnesium oxide. That product is quite inert by normal conditions. It does not flash nor will it burn, i am told. So maybe it would haft to be some form of hot reaction that made the white flame, and not alloy magnesium by itself?.
4. If within minutes the oxygen in the fire zone depleted, and the pace of burning was regulated by the area available for venting the hot exhaust gases, and the area available for the entry of fresh air. And forces of impact and explosion could have broken some of the aluminum in the building into small granules and powder. Chemical reactions with hydrocarbon or water vapors might have occurred on the surfaces of freshly granulated hot aluminum. And let's add in this hypothetical scenario that there was strong 35 mph winds that through a large hole turned the building into a large blast furnace. Since iron can be made molten in a small furnace only 12 feet high, one that was several stories high with plenty of fuel and air would maybe have some effect on the fire so that some amounts of molten iron could be produced?, but i am not sure?, how powerful would the winds haft to be to have any effect on the fire on the steel in a scenario like this?, would 35 mph be enough?, and if the winds where much lower, maybe 10 mph, they would have zero effect on the fire?, please speak a little about this possible wind effect on a fire.
5. I also wonder what happens when aluminium is molten and flowing and falling down in the air, if the molten aluminium will have a orange or silver color as it falls down in the air and if it will remain orange during its whole descent or if it will have a silvery color the whole time. I once saw aluminium being heated in a container to 980c or 1800 F and you could see that it cools rapidly to a silvery colour, it didnt have any orange color. I also saw when they added organic materials to the molten aluminium and it floats on the liguid aluminium and burns up (oxidizes), it didnt change the silvery color of the aluminium. Rapid cooling of aluminum does produce a silvery looking "precipitate" for lack of a better word right now. As i understand it they would only stay molten for as long as they're above the melting temperature and flowing, once it stops flowing it begins to cool even faster than it already is. But while it's falling, could it have the molten orange color or not is the question, i know iron will have orange color when molten and falling in the air, but now i want to find out if the same is true for aluminium. I heard that aluminium only rapid cools when it's standing, because it's flowing, the silver is an oxidized layer, it can't form that layer if the surface it's constantly being broken up. I guess this also could depend on flow rate. Personally aluminum sparks which are small particles of aluminum burning i have only seen burn silver or white, no orange color. Even if we look at the scenario in question number 3, and some explosion impact had broken some of the aluminum in the building into small granules and powder and chemical reactions with hydrocarbon or water vapors might have occurred, this would still not change the silver color of any molten aluminum into a orange color while it was falling in the air, and would not make it flash either?, like the effect i described in my first question with 6 flashes in 8 seconds from a orange melted material falling in the air?.
1. When you have flashes from metals that are burning, like from magnesium, aluminium or iron, how often should you see the flashes, and what will the duration of the flashes be?, can any of these 3 metals when molten flash 6 times in let's say 8 seconds?, with the longest duration of one flash beeing 0.87s?. And is it possible for any molten material falling in the air to give off these flashes because of rapid vaporization of the water in the air when the water vapor in the air is at normal levels of 68% RH and not 100% RH or is this extremely unlikely?.
2. If within minutes the oxygen in a fire zone is depleted, and you have some molten iron pouring, could metallic alloy magnesium get mixed somehow with the molten iron in a fire, and while the molten iron was pouring and flowing in the air with a orange color, could the alloy magnesium then from the falling and flowing molten iron in the air make a couple, let's say 6 flashes, in short time of 8 seconds, white flashes from inside of the molten iron?, like the burning specks of burning magnesium in a foundry with oxygen that flash white while they burn?, or is this not how alloy magnesium behave?. I am told that a magnesium rod, about 1 cm in diameter, will not ignite in a Bunsen burner flame, even with prolonged heating. Magnesium burns to produce magnesium oxide. That product is quite inert by normal conditions. It does not flash nor will it burn, i am told.
3. And my next question about magnesium is not about any flash effect, but about a flame effect. If you have an unusual flame visible within a office fire, a very bright white flame, as opposed to the typical yellow or orange surrounding regular flames, this would suggest that some type of metal is burning, i know aluminum will burn, but in normal fires it usually melts instead because the metal surface is protected by an oxide layer that must be breeched before ignition can take place. Aluminium oxide melts at 2072C that typical office fires will not reach. But do you think that the burning of alloy magnesium in a regular office fire could explain a very bright white flame?. I am told that metallic magnesium can be difficult to ignite depending on it thickness. That a magnesium rod, about 1 cm in diameter, will not ignite in a Bunsen burner flame, even with prolonged heating. Magnesium burns to produce magnesium oxide. That product is quite inert by normal conditions. It does not flash nor will it burn, i am told. So maybe it would haft to be some form of hot reaction that made the white flame, and not alloy magnesium by itself?.
4. If within minutes the oxygen in the fire zone depleted, and the pace of burning was regulated by the area available for venting the hot exhaust gases, and the area available for the entry of fresh air. And forces of impact and explosion could have broken some of the aluminum in the building into small granules and powder. Chemical reactions with hydrocarbon or water vapors might have occurred on the surfaces of freshly granulated hot aluminum. And let's add in this hypothetical scenario that there was strong 35 mph winds that through a large hole turned the building into a large blast furnace. Since iron can be made molten in a small furnace only 12 feet high, one that was several stories high with plenty of fuel and air would maybe have some effect on the fire so that some amounts of molten iron could be produced?, but i am not sure?, how powerful would the winds haft to be to have any effect on the fire on the steel in a scenario like this?, would 35 mph be enough?, and if the winds where much lower, maybe 10 mph, they would have zero effect on the fire?, please speak a little about this possible wind effect on a fire.
5. I also wonder what happens when aluminium is molten and flowing and falling down in the air, if the molten aluminium will have a orange or silver color as it falls down in the air and if it will remain orange during its whole descent or if it will have a silvery color the whole time. I once saw aluminium being heated in a container to 980c or 1800 F and you could see that it cools rapidly to a silvery colour, it didnt have any orange color. I also saw when they added organic materials to the molten aluminium and it floats on the liguid aluminium and burns up (oxidizes), it didnt change the silvery color of the aluminium. Rapid cooling of aluminum does produce a silvery looking "precipitate" for lack of a better word right now. As i understand it they would only stay molten for as long as they're above the melting temperature and flowing, once it stops flowing it begins to cool even faster than it already is. But while it's falling, could it have the molten orange color or not is the question, i know iron will have orange color when molten and falling in the air, but now i want to find out if the same is true for aluminium. I heard that aluminium only rapid cools when it's standing, because it's flowing, the silver is an oxidized layer, it can't form that layer if the surface it's constantly being broken up. I guess this also could depend on flow rate. Personally aluminum sparks which are small particles of aluminum burning i have only seen burn silver or white, no orange color. Even if we look at the scenario in question number 3, and some explosion impact had broken some of the aluminum in the building into small granules and powder and chemical reactions with hydrocarbon or water vapors might have occurred, this would still not change the silver color of any molten aluminum into a orange color while it was falling in the air, and would not make it flash either?, like the effect i described in my first question with 6 flashes in 8 seconds from a orange melted material falling in the air?.
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