Who Was Behind the Death of Alexei Navalny?

[Astronuc]

Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny dies has been murdered in prison
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...der-alexei-navalny-dies-in-prison/ar-BB1inlQm

He was 47.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68315943

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/alexey-navalny-dead-russia-prison-02-16-24/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/02/16/world/aleksei-navalny

 

[phinds]

Sad, but inevitable, given Putin's inclinations. Preliminary reports from Russia are calling it natural causes. Right.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Navalny dies has been murdered

I agree that this is the logical conclusion, but is there evidence?

 

[fresh_42]

His fate was sealed when he decided to return to Russia. I never understood this. He should have stayed in Berlin among literally thousands of other Russians. I mean he has been nearly assassinated, barely survived, and then returned to a place where his murderers could try again?

 

[fresh_42]

I agree that this is the logical conclusion, but is there evidence?

You mean other than the fact that they tried before?

 

[phinds]

You mean other than the fact that they tried before?

AND the fact that Putin has made it clear that he wants his opponents dead and has had several of them murdered? He likely didn't even have to give a specific order to have Navalny killed in prison.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Reminder to keep the discussion, apolitical, neutral bias, and on topic.

 

[fresh_42]

AND the fact that Putin has made it clear that he wants his opponents dead and has had several of them murdered? He likely didn't even have to give a specific order to have Navalny killed in prison.

A commentator here said: "He was kept under circumstances under which a healthy person would have struggled to survive."

 

[russ_watters]

Sad, but inevitable, given Putin's inclinations. Preliminary reports from Russia are calling it natural causes. Right.

Probably just food poisoning.

 

[fresh_42]

Reminder to keep the discussion, apolitical, neutral bias, and on topic.

Sorry, but this is a contradiction in itself.

 

[Rive]

Alexei Navalny dies has been murdered in prison

There should be a different word for this. Murder is too personal, simplistic and law-bound for this kind of deed regularly done in dictatorships.

 

[fresh_42]

Probably just food poisoning.

Probably too risky in case someone decides to allow an autopsy. The Russian winter in a Russian gulag did the job for nothing.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Sorry, but this is a contradiction in itself.

Maybe that was my point... this thread is likely not long for this world

 

[Astronuc]

I agree that this is the logical conclusion, but is there evidence?

I'm sure there is. Is it available to an objective entity? Most likely not.

There should be a different word for this. Murder is too personal

I'm using the legal term, which is conventionally and universally understood to mean, 'unjustified or illegal, or otherwise, 'unlawful and premeditated' homicide'.

 

[fresh_42]

Maybe that was my point... this thread is likely not long for this world

There is actually a good reason to close it before anybody says something that might bring them into trouble in case they want or have to travel to Russia for professional reasons.

I am glad my avatar picture on a bridge over the Terek was taken long ago.

 

[PeroK]

I accept that we keep politics out of PF, but the price is that a thread like this cannot remain open. To keep it open and for no one to say anything feels like we all have our heads in the sand or our hands over our eyes.

 

[fresh_42]

I accept that we keep politics out of PF, but the price is that a thread like this cannot remain open. To keep it open and for no one to say anything feels like we all have our heads in the sand or our hands over our eyes.

... especially with the many assassinations of Russians on British and German ground in mind. Proof? A German court hasn't had any doubt. That is more than I can ever quote from the internet.

 

[pinball1970]

Probably just food poisoning.

Or walking, he died following a walk. That's pretty reckless behaviour.

 

[Rive]

I'm using the legal term, which is conventionally and universally understood to mean, 'unjustified or illegal, or otherwise, 'unlawful and premeditated' homicide'.

Where it falls short is, that the kind of ... mistreatment? deprival of means to live? - is exactly approved/supported by the local usage of legal system ...

 

[pinball1970]

Where it falls short is, that the kind of ... mistreatment? deprival of means to live? - is exactly approved/supported by the local usage of legal system ...

Claims are he spent 280 days in isolation up to his death.

 

[Sagittarius A-Star]

His fate was sealed when he decided to return to Russia. I never understood this. He should have stayed in Berlin among literally thousands of other Russians.

That would have probably not saved him.

A German judge accused Russia of state terrorism over the murder in Berlin's Tiergarten of Zelimkhan Khangoshvili, an ethnic Chechen of Georgian citizenship who commanded a militia in Chechnya's failed war seeking independence from Russia in the 2000s.
HOW WAS PUTIN INVOLVED?
The judge said the order to kill Khangoshvili, who was no longer active in the Chechen independence movement, must have come from Putin, noting that Russian law gave him power to authorise operations to kill people the state regards as "terrorists", even abroad. Russia contests the judge's interpretation.

Source:
https://www.reuters.com/world/vadim...an-putin-wants-swap-us-journalist-2024-02-09/

 

[fresh_42]

That would have probably not saved him.


Source:
https://www.reuters.com/world/vadim...an-putin-wants-swap-us-journalist-2024-02-09/

It would at least have been a lot easier to protect him.

 

[pinball1970]

Some background.

He was exposed to a nerve agent in 2020 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6039123/

That would potentially shorten his life combined with a long term stay in a high security facility in Russia, with multiple stints in solitary confinement.
Years were added too.
Be interesting to get info on the autopsy if they allow that.

 

[Sagittarius A-Star]

It would at least have been a lot easier to protect him.

Yes. In 2020 he was protected by the German BKA, while he was in hospital in Germany.

Source:
https://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik...in-berlin-vom-bka-beschutzt-wird-6068626.html

 

[Sagittarius A-Star]

Some background.

He was exposed to an agent in 2020 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6039123/

That would potentially shorten his life combined with a long term stay in a high security facility in Russia, with multiple stints is solitary confinement.
Years were added too.
Be interesting to get info on the autopsy if they allow that.

And after that, he made in 2020 an interesting telephone call.

Navalny says he tricked spy into admitting poisoning

Source (i.e. at 11m20s):

 

[Bystander]

There should be a different word for this. Murder is too personal, simplistic and law-bound for this kind of deed regularly done in dictatorships.

"Trotsky/i was blanked/assassinated/icepicked/rockpicked...?" He got Trotskied, perhaps? No question who ordered it; one might offer the term "Beria'd" to keep with the spirit, if not the sense/feeling of the event.

 

[fresh_42]

Another airplane "accident" would have been too suspicious for a gulag prisoner.

 

[geordief]

I would use the word “executed”.

Not repellent enough.

Navalny deserves a standing ovation but sadly will never see it now.

 

[Vanadium 50]

You mean other than the fact that they tried before?

Yes, that's exactly what I am asking.

 

[fresh_42]

Yes, that's exactly what I am asking.

Putin is an old Большевики and probably did what they always did: let the Russian winter and the ГУЛаг do the job. I assume that Новичо́к ($LD_{50}=1\,mg$) has set the stage for them to work.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I don't read Russian.

I admit that Putin has reason to murder him. I admit that he is a bad, bad person who has done many bad things. I am asking if there is evidence that he has done this particular bad thing.

 

[PeroK]

Putin missed a trick here. He should have planted a copy of the Quran in Navalny's cell and got the IDF to assassinate him. Then he would have been in the clear.

 

[Hill]

Putin is an old Большевики and probably did what they always did: let the Russian winter and the ГУЛаг do the job. I assume that Новичо́к ($LD_{50}=1\,mg$) has set the stage for them to work.

Just some help with the use of foreign language:
Большевики - plural, Большевик - singular,
Новичо́к - Новичёк.

 

[pinball1970]

I don't read Russian.

I admit that Putin has reason to murder him. I admit that he is a bad, bad person who has done many bad things. I am asking if there is evidence that he has done this particular bad thing.

If there is evidence I don't think it will be available. If everything I read on wiki regarding the last couple of years of his life is close to accurate, then he could have actually died following a walk in that place. I made a flippant comment about that but it was intended as sarcasm, as people as a rule do not die at 47 from walking.
However, following his poisoning, incarceration, solitary confinement, denied medical attention, deprived of sleep over long periods, added time to sentence adding to his stress, he could have just died after three years of it.

 

[fresh_42]

And now they are officially after his brother. Kin liability is typical for dictatorships.