Sanity check: Alien reproduction

  • #1
somegrue
12
7
[long post, lots of brainstorming]

Hi,

for quite a while, I've been trying to come up with a reproductive scheme that's sufficiently different from ours to have interesting implications, obvious as well as less obvious ones, without getting too complicated or contrived. This would be the dominant scheme, at least among "higher lifeforms", in an alien ecosystem. One of said interesting implications is meant to be the ecosystem's sapient species having gender dynamics utterly unlike human ones.

I've an idea now that I really like, mainly inspired by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clownfish#Reproduction and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnacle#Parasitism. It seems more straightforward than any of my earlier ideas, and at the same time so weird that I feel like I need help thinking it though - which I suppose means it meets my conditions.

Here's how it works:

- A child has two biological parents, and is conceived when one type of sex cell combines with the other type of sex cell. I dunno if the pros of calling these "female" and "male" outweigh the cons - cf https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CallARabbitASmeerp, https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CallASmeerpARabbit - but until I do, I may as well use the familiar terms, yes?

- Every child is female, in the sense that she has, or will be growing, functional equivalents of ovary and uterus. Additionally, however, she has an organ for growing reproductive tissue - that's the bit based on the parasitic crustaceans, and no general-usage terms exist, so let's call them "barnacle organ" and "barnacle tissue".

- Once she matures, she mates with one or more males, who supply her with their barnacle tissue, which gets incorporated into her reproductive tract. I'm thinking this somewhat parallels the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuptial_flight familiar from eusocial insects, so let's call this the "queen" stage.

- Like testes, barnacle tissue is for producing two things, male sex cells and androgens. The foreign male sex cells are for fertilising the queen's own female sex cells. The androgens are for switching off the queen's ovaries and instead switching on her barnacle organs, transforming her into a male in turn. Presumably, this would be accompanied by externally visible changes - beard growth, to pick one example.

- The further details of a species' life cycle are then determined by the order in which the barnacle tissue does those things. Generally, it probably makes sense for it to deteriorate more rapidly than the adult ages. If there are no subsequent matings to replenish the supply, that means that the reproductive stage gives way to a neuter stage - somewhat like menopause in female humans, but more so and maybe involving gender as well as reproductivity, due to their intertwining in this scheme. Then again, there may be little evolutionary point to such a stage outside of the more social species, so maybe that needs rethinking.

- Unlike for testes, for banacle tissue to produce male sex cells and androgens at the same time doesn't make sense, surely.

- The two could be produced alternatingly, maybe involving a negative feedback cycle. That would mean the adult keeps flipping between pregnant and male.

- One could give way to the other, maybe in the course of the abovementioned deterioration of the tissue. If male sex cells are produced early and androgens later, that could mean that the male stage more or less coincides with the parenting stage, which could mean an intrinsic conflict between those two roles.

- If it's the other way 'round - androgens first, male sex cells later - (reproductive) sex happens only during early adulthood, first in the female, then in the male role. Then pregnancies, then parenthood.

- If there's barnacle tissue from multiple males, there could also be an antagonistic aspect to this. Like, the presence of androgens could accelerate or decelerate the deterioration of the tissue, so each has to keep "deciding" whether producing sex cells or androgens is currently more to its overall advantage. Yikes!

Okay, that's about as far as I've got. LMK if you see any major holes, or if I forgot to include anything crucial.

---

ETA: Ah, missed at least one major point - how do the mechanics of sex work here, which is to say, what happens with the genitals as the adult goes from producing one type of sex cell to the other? My model organisms, clownfish, don't copulate, so the question doesn't really come up there. The simplest solution that occurred to me is to preemptively "design" a minimally sexually dimorphic sexual organ that works in both roles, along the lines of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitoris#Spotted_hyenas. That way, the change from the female to the male role, and back again, should be as simple as a bit of internal "re-plumbing", plus behavioral changes to make up the balance. That may well be too naive, however...
 
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  • #2
Not a bad idea at all.
I'd suggest reading Ursula K. LeGuin's novel "Left Hand of Darkness". It depicts an extraterrestrial human species that had been genetically modified back in the mists of time to create a variant of hermaphroditism based upon hormonal cycles in which the typically neutral-gender people can flip to either functionally male or functionally female. The male phase lasts only a few days as does the female phase unless pregnancy occurs, at which point it would continue through gestation and a few months after birth (for milk production) before reverting the neutral phase. She built rather well thought out socio-cultural structures around this.
I also seem to recall a short story where the testes and penis are actually a parasitic organism, but I cannot recall the title, author, or where I read it, nor the actual - aha - thrust of the story.
 
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  • #3
ShadowKraz said:
I also seem to recall a short story where the testes and penis are actually a parasitic organism, but I cannot recall the title, author, or where I read it, nor the actual - aha - thrust of the story.
This?
(I just googled "a short story where the testes and penis are actually a parasitic organism" from your post, heh.)
 
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  • #4
somegrue said:
This?

(I just googled "a short story where the testes and penis are actually a parasitic organism" from your post, heh.)
Hokey smokes, Bullwinkle, dat's der bunny! Thank you! It's been quite a few years since I've read any of his work or I probably would have remembered.
 
  • #5
ShadowKraz said:
I also seem to recall a short story where the testes and penis are actually a parasitic organism, but I cannot recall the title, author, or where I read it, nor the actual - aha - thrust of the story.
I can help you here. The short story by John Varley is written as a dream sequence where a female psychiatrist visiting a woman imprisoned for murder learns a strange new theory of human reproduction. The gist: there are no actual male humans. Male reproductive organs are a parasite that infects and eventually destroys fun loving females causing them to behave like males.

I read this story back in 1980s but I think this short story, possible titled "Manikins", is published in Varley's second anthology first titled "Barbie Murders" then as "Picnic on Nearside". Varley is an excellent source for gender SF. His brilliant protagonist in novel "The Golden Globe", a professional actor, extrudes a penis for male rolls and retracts same while playing female characters on stage.

[Edit: I see Shadow found the source. John Varley, often compared to Robert Heinlein, appeals to both male and female SF fans; something Heinlein rarely achieved.]
 
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  • #6
Along with John Varley, several other SF authors tackle the OP's concept. "Chip" Delany concocts a fascinating human origins creation tale delivered by a masked female warrior/wanderer from the fabled Western Crevasse in the first novel of his Nevèrÿon fantasy series "Tales of Nevèrÿon".

SF humorist and combat SF author Keith Laumer wrote many short stories featuring galactic diplomat Retief who smooths human interactions with various alien species. The peripetia often depends on odd reproductive strategies.
 
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  • #7
Klystron said:
I can help you here. The short story by John Varley is written as a dream sequence where a female psychiatrist visiting a woman imprisoned for murder learns a strange new theory of human reproduction. The gist: there are no actual male humans. Male reproductive organs are a parasite that infects and eventually destroys fun loving females causing them to behave like males.
There are two cancers in animals that are inherited by being transmitted between individuals:
  • the Tasmanian devil face cancer, transmitted between individuals when they bite each other's faces
  • an a Canine transmissible venereal tumor (CTVT) is a contagious cancer that spreads between dogs by the physical transfer of cancer cells usually during mating.
    In this case the cells are not germ cells, so their genetics do not become part of the next dog generation, but this specific cancer line has been propagated for hundreds of years IIRC.
 
  • #8
Must be said that our Earth's sexual systems can be, um, disturbing.
Let us shudder, sidle past parasites with complex life-cycles, too often opportunistically infecting people and domestic animals...
IIRC, some fungi, may or may not have a dozen sexes. Perhaps they just trade traits like phone apps ?? Reef-fish who switch from female to male if local 'stud' loses his life or mojo. Rays, sharks, lizards and reptiles who some-times manage that trick if isolated. Common -or- garden greenfly who clone themselves until the autumn, then some lay males to mate and shuffle the genetics ready for next year. Polyps who merrily feed up to bud clones, except for one annual orgy of releasing eggs / sperm into the current, this 'bloom' far exceeding predators' appetites. And then the fertilised hatch into tiny, free-swimming 'bell' jellyfish who bobble about until they find a suitable location, settle down, discard most of their 'navigation' sensory system and become polyps...

Speaking of 'mast' seasons, did you see report of how a specialist fungus makes infected cicadas hyper-active and sex-mad ? The 'annual' cicadas suffer badly, but the 'cyclic' groups also suffer, as the underground grubs carry spores along...

Monotremes, marsupials, who have dodged the 'pelvis portal' bottle-neck that besets humans. Megapodes who bury their eggs in geo-thermal warmed sands.. Now that is truly niche-nesting....

I've seen several SciFi tales where aliens have three distinct sexes, one being the 'pregnancy carrier', the mechanism oft unpleasant { Squirm...} And 'Parasitic Wasp' sorta systems...

Whatever, try to figure how such a system evolved. Else, if too contrived, perhaps was genetically engineered, so how, when and why...

Tangential, the vast 'Uplift' saga by David Brin features space-faring 'cameloids'. Beyond their lips' modest dexterity, they must operate machines, fly their space-craft etc using speech-recognition and 'smart' computers.. Their back-story was 'uplift' by a culture that wanted 'better' riding animals....
 
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  • #9
Nik_2213 said:
Whatever, try to figure how such a system evolved. Else, if too contrived, perhaps was genetically engineered, so how, when and why...
Was with you until the above. Evolution on Earth contains its own mechanism. Molecular complexity does not imply intelligent engineering. Of course, things are genetically engineered today with unforeseen consequences on native systems.

Add Orson Scott Card to your Summer reading list. His "Ender's Game" series includes lots of human/alien skullduggery, if not actual reproductive acts. Sequel "Speaker for the Dead" details Andrew's efforts to conserve different alien species. Also a movie...
 
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  • #10
Klystron said:
Was with you until the above. Evolution on Earth contains its own mechanism. Molecular complexity does not imply intelligent engineering. Of course, things are genetically engineered today with unforeseen consequences on native systems.
That was part of "Left Hand of Darkness"... LeGuin's universe postulated a space-faring species a LONG time ago in our galaxy that seeded genetically engineered variants of a humanoid species through out the Milky Way. While she never stated out right in any of her works, it is more or less a given that our species' immediate predecessor (before the split into early H. sap., Denisovians, and Neanderthals and therefor well before the hybridizations between the three leading to modern H. sap. sap.) was the baseline group that was engineered.
 
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  • #11
"Molecular complexity does not imply intelligent engineering."
Absolutely.
But if you cannot figure how an ET evolved from probable predecessors, either there's a 'Great Unconformity' --Relevant evidence-laden strata lost to erosion by eg glaciation ?-- or possibility of intervention...

Such ETs may not even be on their home planet...

https://written-in-stone-seen-throu.../great-unconformity-of-grand-canyon-part.html
 
  • #12
ShadowKraz said:
That was part of "Left Hand of Darkness"... LeGuin's universe postulated a space-faring species a LONG time ago in our galaxy that seeded genetically engineered variants of a humanoid species through out the Milky Way. While she never stated out right in any of her works, it is more or less a given that our species' immediate predecessor (before the split into early H. sap., Denisovians, and Neanderthals and therefor well before the hybridizations between the three leading to modern H. sap. sap.) was the baseline group that was engineered.
Must confess that of thousands of novels I have read, few were written by women. Not prejudice or misogyny but simply different point of view. I read LeGuin's "Left Hand of Darkness" years ago mainly to discuss with my eldest sister, a major SF fan, but do not remember details. The film "Prometheus" contains a similar plot.

A LeGuin novel I vividly remember "The Lathe of Heaven", also made into two movies, had a profound effect on me. A younger sister and I often discuss our dreams and we were both studying university level mathematics when we saw the first film and shared the novel. Was LeGuin thinking of Wheeler and Many Worlds when she created 'effective dreams'? Ostensibly, effective dreamers alter our universe when they dream. Instead, does the protagonist sample alternate universes while dreaming then awaken in a world they select or, at least, where they can survive?

Even a semblance of Anthropic Principle predicts the dreamer wakes in a survivable situation.
George Orr is exposed to lethal radiation from a nuclear explosion in a destroyed city. Dying in the rubble, they dream of a World at peace and awaken...
I rate Ursula LeGuin's "Lathe of Heaven" among the finest existential SF novels. Also features extremely cool aliens (borrowed by director Luc Besson for the film "Fifth Element").
 
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  • #13
Klystron said:
Must confess that of thousands of novels I have read, few were written by women. Not prejudice or misogyny but simply different point of view. I read LeGuin's "Left Hand of Darkness" years ago mainly to discuss with my eldest sister, a major SF fan, but do not remember details. The film "Prometheus" contains a similar plot.
I highly recommend her works. Most are not 'hard' science fiction due to her author mother, anthropologist father, and historian husband being influences. Part of where her work excelled, I think, was in her well thought out social and cultural forms for her worlds, their inhabitants, the differing approaches to science and applications of the resulting technologies, and in examining the interactions thereof.
But we digress...
 
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