Searching for Purely Chaotic Systems

[eeka chu]

Are there any systems that we know of that operate in a purely chaotic, none deterministic manner? I mean in an absolute sense, as opposed to "more chaotic than...".

I have two other criteria that I'd like to apply;

1.) systems that we don't suspect may be being determined by something we're in the process of researching. (noise in electronics appears chaotic until you know about ionisation currents, crystal boundries, crystal defects etc).

2.) it can't be a system that merely appears random due to canonically conjoined variables making it impossible to produce an ultimate measurement (e.g. particle momentum & location). such systems aren't necessarily operating in a purely chaotic way, the uncertainty can only be directly linked to measuring error - indeed, in the example given, there are quite a lot of factors we could use to predict momentums and locations. In a purely chaotic system, no predictive factors will exist for it's future.

 

[f-h]

Well chaotic != random.

But if I have an electron in a momentum eigenstate a position meassurement is purely random, not due to meassurement error but due to the fundamental nature of QM.

 

[Entropia]

I can confirm that there are indeed systems that operate in a purely chaotic, non-deterministic manner. One example is the weather, which is notoriously difficult to predict due to its chaotic nature. Other examples include the behavior of fluids, such as turbulent flow, and the motion of celestial bodies in the universe.

In response to your criteria, it is important to note that even in systems that may initially appear chaotic, there may still be underlying factors or patterns that can be studied and understood. For example, while the weather may seem unpredictable, we have been able to develop models and theories to better understand and forecast it. Furthermore, in the example of particle momentum and location, while there may be uncertainty due to measurement error, there are still fundamental physical laws and principles that govern their behavior.

However, there are also systems that are truly random and operate in a purely chaotic manner, with no predictable factors or patterns. These systems are often referred to as "stochastic" systems, and they play a crucial role in many fields of science, such as quantum mechanics and genetics.

In conclusion, while there may be systems that initially appear purely chaotic, it is important for scientists to continue researching and understanding the underlying factors and patterns that may contribute to their behavior. Only through continued study and analysis can we truly determine the extent of chaos and randomness in our world.