Seattle airport removes Christmas trees to avoid lawsuit

[Ivan Seeking]

SEATAC, Washington (AP) -- All nine Christmas trees have been removed from the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport instead of adding a giant Jewish menorah to the holiday display as a rabbi had requested.
[continued]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/10/airport.christmas.trees.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

 

[Cyrus]

Heh, that's odd because I don't want people praying at the airports or public places, yet I don't have any problems with displaying christmas trees or menorahs.

Can I have my cake and eat it too?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

What I find funny is that Christmas trees aren't even Christian symbols.

 

[verty]

And this shows perfectly well why church and state should be separate (even though this was an airport, it applies elsewhere).

 

[Anttech]

Why would a Jew want to celebrate Christmas? Strange... Of course if they want to then that's fine by me :)

 

[Yonoz]

In Haifa they celebrate the "http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1164881842692&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull" ", in the city's spirit of coexistence.

 

[Anttech]

What I don't understand is why they call Christians, Christian Arabs, but Jews are just Jews, not Jewish Arabs. Sorry off topic, just puzzled me.

Anyway, why would a Rabbi insist on a 'giant Jewish menorah' to stand beside a Christmas tree? Seems strange, regardless I doubt anyone would even know what it is, in fact the symbol is used in Orthodox Christianity as well.

 

[Yonoz]

What I don't understand is why they call Christians, Christian Arabs, but Jews are just Jews, not Jewish Arabs. Sorry off topic, just puzzled me.

That puzzles me too. I know of no person of the European diaspora who minds being called a European Jew, but don't ever call someone from the North-African or Eastern diaspora an Arab-Jew, they will probably be quite offended. They're usually the ones with the worst opinions about Arabs as well, which is funny because much of their identity was shaped by the many generations their forefathers spent in Arab societies. This is of course a generalization, as Astronuc says there are no monolithic entities.

Anyway, why would a Rabbi insist on a 'giant Jewish menorah' to stand beside a Christmas tree? Seems strange, regardless I doubt anyone would even know what it is, in fact the symbol is used in Orthodox Christianity as well.

I don't know why he would insist on such a thing, in fact I think it is somewhat of a dishonor to have a giant Menorah in an airport. Synagogues exist for a reason.

EDIT: I read the article again, just to be sure, and it's exactly as I thought. That Rabbi is from Chabad Lieubavitch, an orthodox group that excels in causing nuisances. Virtually all secular Israeli Jews despise them, they have a missionary quality to them.

 

[Astronuc]

Anyway, why would a Rabbi insist on a 'giant Jewish menorah' to stand beside a Christmas tree? Seems strange, regardless I doubt anyone would even know what it is, in fact the symbol is used in Orthodox Christianity as well.

Equal access or equal accommodation.

If one religion has its symbol displayed publicly, then other religions may feel compelled to have their religious symbols displayed.

Menorah is a symbol associated with Hanukkah,

also known as the Festival of Lights or Festival of Rededication, is an eight day Jewish holiday that starts on the 25th day of Kislev, which may be in December, late November, or, while very rare in occasion, early January (as was the case for the Hannukkah of 2005–2006). The festival is observed in Jewish homes by the kindling of lights on each of the festival's eight nights, one on the first night, two on the second night and so on.

In Hebrew script, the word Hanukkah is written חנכה or חנוכה. It is most commonly transliterated to English as Hanukkah or Chanukah.

Ref: Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanukkah

http://torah.org/learning/yomtov/chanukah/

http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday7.htm

And some trivia

Hannukah is celebrated around the world for eight days and nights. Hannukah celebrates the victory of the Maccabees or Israelites over the Greek-Syrian ruler, Antiochus about 2200 years ago.

A Menorah is a special nine-branched candelabrum, also known in Hebrew as a Hanukkiyyah.

Each night of Hannukah, an additional candle is placed in the Menorah from right to left, and then lit from left to right. On the last night, all the candles are lit.

A dreidle, or sivion is a four-sided top that has a Hebrew letter on each side.

During Hannukah, families eat latkes (potato pancakes) and sufganiot (jelly donuts), or other foods which are fried in oil, to celebrate and commemorate the miracle of the Festival of Lights.

http://www.twinklebulbs.com/trivia.htm

The first printed reference to Christmas trees appeared in Germany in 1531.

Real Christmas trees are an all-American product, grown in all 50 states, including Alaska and Hawaii. California, Oregon, Michigan, Washington, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and North Carolina are the top Christmas tree producing states. Oregon is the leading producer of Christmas trees - 8.6 million in 1998.

Christmas trees are edible. Many parts of pines, spruces, and firs can be eaten. The needles are a good source of vitamin C. Pine nuts, or pine cones, are also a good source of nutrition.

The best selling Christmas trees are Scotch pine, Douglas fir, Noble fir, Fraser fir, Virginia pine, Balsam fir and white pine.

For every real Christmas tree harvested, 2 to 3 seedlings are planted in its place. Each hectare provides the daily oxygen requirements of 45 people.

Artificial Christmas trees have outsold real ones since 1991.

Two hundred years before the birth of Christ, the Druids used mistletoe to celebrate the coming of winter. They would gather this evergreen plant that is parasitic upon other trees and used it to decorate their homes. They believed the plant had special healing powers for everything from female infertility to poison ingestion. Scandinavians also thought of mistletoe as a plant of peace and harmony. They associated mistletoe with their goddess of love, Frigga. The custom of kissing under the mistletoe probably derived from this belief. The early church banned the use of mistletoe in Christmas celebrations because of its pagan origins. Instead, church fathers suggested the use of holly as an appropriate substitute for Christmas greenery.

In 1836, Alabama was the first state in the USA to declare Christmas a legal holiday.

In 1856, President Franklin Pierce decorates the first White House Christmas tree.

In 1907, Oklahoma became the last USA state to declare Christmas a legal holiday.

The original German nutcrackers were made to resemble kings, soldiers, and other authority figures. Since Germans sometimes say someone has "a hard nut to crack" if they mean that the person is having difficulties, the 18th century woodworkers who created the now traditional form of nutcracker made the figures in the shape of the people who made life difficult. While in life the lower classes were at the mercy of sometimes-harsh authorities, in their homes the tables could be turned by making figures of those authorities perform work for the poorer people. This also suggests another very old holiday tradition, found in many countries, that at Christmas the social order should be reversed, and those with lower status be served by those with higher status. Some people further claim that the fierce expressions and authoritarian costumes on old nutcrackers were also intended to scare away evil spirits.

The Christmas season begins at sundown on 24th December and lasts through sundown on 5th January. For that reason, this season is also known as the Twelve Days of Christmas.

The idea to celebrate Christmas on December 25 originated in the 4th century. The Catholic Church wanted to eclipse the festivities of a rival pagan religion that threatened Christianity's existence. The Romans celebrated the birthday of their sun god, Mithras during this time of year. Although it was not popular, or even proper, to celebrate people's birthdays in those times, church leaders decided that in order to compete with the pagan celebration they would themselves order a festival in celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. Although the actual season of Jesus' birth is thought to be in the spring, the date of December 25 was chosen as the official birthday celebration as Christ's Mass so that it would compete head on with the rival pagan celebration. Christmas was slow to catch on in America. The early colonists considered it a pagan ritual. The celebration of Christmas was even banned by law in Massachusetts in colonial days.

All the trivia facts have not been rigourously or independently verified, but they are consistent with other sources.

 

[Anttech]

That puzzles me too. I know of no person of the European diaspora who minds being called a European Jew, but don't ever call someone from the North-African or Eastern diaspora an Arab-Jew, they will probably be quite offended. They're usually the ones with the worst opinions about Arabs as well, which is funny because much of their identity was shaped by the many generations their forefathers spent in Arab societies. This is of course a generalization, as Astronuc says there are no monolithic entities.

Actually, that's another thing I find Funny. North Africans who call themselfs 'Arabs,' they arent, they are different race.

Yes they speak Arabic, due to Islam, but they arent Arabs. Egyptian were civilized way before Arabs were, and it is thought by some that it is due to Egyptians and Hellenic converts, that Islam was able to spread at its birth, because at that time the Arabs certainly weren't in a position to spread a Relgion, they were too busy killing each other.

 

[Anttech]

Equal access or equal accommodation.

If one religion has its symbol displayed publicly, then other religions may feel compelled to have their religious symbols displayed.

By all means, but why would they insist to do it at the same time as Christmas?

Menorah is a symbol associated with Hanukkah,

Its associated with many things, and as I said you will find it in many Orthodox Churches, its an eastern Religious symbol used in judaism and Christianity. Not sure about Islam. To be honest they should have just put the thing up.

http://www.antiochian-orthodox.co.uk/holy_table.htm

 

[Moonbear]

I don't know why he would insist on such a thing, in fact I think it is somewhat of a dishonor to have a giant Menorah in an airport. Synagogues exist for a reason.

It's pretty commonplace in the US for a Menorah to be displayed as part of a larger holiday display in public places. If you're going to have symbols of one religious holiday displayed, usually it avoids trouble to have symbols of all the holidays displayed. Menorahs are displayed in a lot of public places to celebrate Hannukah.

Though, I don't think anyone would care if there were or weren't holiday decorations in an airport, so just taking them down is probably the easiest thing to do, otherwise, every time you add a symbol, another group starts complaining they want their symbol included too.

 

[Yonoz]

Phew, Astronuc I envy your patience.
Just one small correction: there is a difference between a Menorah and Hanukkiah.
The original Menorah sat in the Temple and had 7 branches. It is displayed on Israel's coat of arms and replicas of it are displayed in institutions like the Knesset and the President's residence. When the second Temple was destroyed the Romans took it off to Rome. It was made of gold so it was probably melted some time after the fall of the Roman empire.

 

[Yonoz]

Actually, that's another thing I find Funny. North Africans who call themselfs 'Arabs,' they arent, they are different race.

Actually the Arabs spread quite far. The Maghreb are of mixed Arab and Berber origins.

 

[Yonoz]

By all means, but why would they insist to do it at the same time as Christmas?

You're joking, right?

 

[Anttech]

So did the greeks, but we don't call Persians Hellenic do we, or Lebanon Byzantine. My point is North Africans, are just that North Africans. They arent Arabs, whether they think they are or not. Arabs are from Arabia, North Africa especially Morocco and Algeria isn't in Arabia

 

[Anttech]

You're joking, right?

Nope, why?

 

[Yonoz]

It's pretty commonplace in the US for a Menorah to be displayed as part of a larger holiday display in public places. If you're going to have symbols of one religious holiday displayed, usually it avoids trouble to have symbols of all the holidays displayed. Menorahs are displayed in a lot of public places to celebrate Hannukah.

I don't think any Jew ever celebrated Hanukkah with a giant Hanukkiah before Jews saw Christians putting up Christmas trees and decorations. What's nice about Hanukkah is the fact every family lights up their own small Hanukkiah and puts it by the window to make a true festival of lights. As the song goes "we are each a small light, and together we make strong light". I don't see why an Orthodox Rabbi should complain about Christians not putting up a Jewish imitation of Christianity, let alone threatening them with a lawsuit... It has nothing to do with religion, he's probably just looking for publicity. Personally, it strikes me as a display of insecurity with one's religion. If that Rabbi put his mind to more positive things he would accomplish much more for Judaism and the world in general.

 

[Yonoz]

So did the greeks, but we don't call Persians Hellenic do we, or Lebanon Byzantine. My point is North Africans, are just that North Africans. They arent Arabs, whether they think they are or not. Arabs are from Arabia, North Africa especially Morocco and Algeria isn't in Arabia

It all depends on your definition of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab" . Have a look at that table on the right side of the page.

 

[Yonoz]

Nope, why?

Well then Happy Hanukkah and Merry Christmas to you! Hanukkah begins this Saturday, the 25th of the Jewish month of Kislev.

 

[Anttech]

IMHO Its a Race of people, whom speak Arabic, and have the same cultural identity. Moroccans don't even look like Arabs, sure there will be some Arabs in North Africa. They share a religion with Arabs and speak a dialect of Arabic, but their cultures arent so similar.

A Moroccan / Algerian is to an Arab the same as what a Turk is to an Arab. The difference being that Turks don't speak Arabic where as Moroccans ? Algerians speak some sort of Dialect of it. Egypt as more of a case, but there were invaded and settled by Arabs, however, they have a distinctive culture and history which is strong enough to be classed as Egyptian not Arabic..

Anyway yeap, it comes down to Opinion I suppose

 

[Anttech]

Well then Happy Hanukkah and Merry Christmas to you! Hanukkah begins this Saturday, the 25th of the Jewish month of Kislev.

I always thought Hanukkah was November? hehe.. ok then I see why he wanted it up then.. Sorry for the ignorance

 

[Yonoz]

I always thought Hanukkah was November? hehe.. ok then I see why he wanted it up then.. Sorry for the ignorance

No worries... Few people know there's a Jewish calendar.

 

[Evo]

Heh, that's odd because I don't want people praying at the airports or public places, yet I don't have any problems with displaying christmas trees or menorahs.

Can I have my cake and eat it too?

I feel the same way. And Ivan is right, the Christmas tree is not a Christian religious symbol.

 

[Echo 6 Sierra]

I don't get it. Are large airports businesses run by corporations and renting space to airlines, or are they owned by cities that do that instead? In any case, couldn't the airport just hang obviously Jewish ornaments on the trees as well as any that may have been there to make everything spiritually creamy?

HAPPY CHRISTMA-HANNU-KWANZA-KA!

 

[MeJennifer]

I feel the same way. And Ivan is right, the Christmas tree is not a Christian religious symbol.

Indeed a tree is just a tree.

 

[loseyourname]

I don't get it. Are large airports businesses run by corporations and renting space to airlines, or are they owned by cities that do that instead? In any case, couldn't the airport just hang obviously Jewish ornaments on the trees as well as any that may have been there to make everything spiritually creamy?

This airport is owned by the Port of Seattle, a public authority with a CEO appointed by a commission that is elected by the voters of King County. Their funding is both private and public, relying on small percentages of King County property taxes, passenger facility charges ($4.50 that is added to every ticket a passenger buys), the net income of all Port-owned facilities, FAA grants, bonds they issue, and whatever else they can get.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

the Christmas tree is not a Christian religious symbol.

Well now I'm going to help finish off what's left of Christmas. Since the Christmas tree is really a pagan symbol, by all rights Christians could demand that a baby Jesus be included in any public display!


... of course, this would be offensive to some Christians who consider such displays idolatry.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Seattle airport bringing back Christmas trees
AKA
The rabbi who saved Christmas
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/12/airport.christmas.trees.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

 

[Anttech]

Well now I'm going to help finish off what's left of Christmas. Since the Christmas tree is really a pagan symbol, by all rights Christians could demand that a baby Jesus be included in any public display!

Many Symbols in Christianity can be traced back to the pagans

 

[verty]

Many Symbols in Christianity can be traced back to the pagans

Including the immaculate conception.

 

[Moonbear]

Seattle airport bringing back Christmas trees
AKA
The rabbi who saved Christmas
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/12/airport.christmas.trees.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

I heard that this morning and just laughed! I guess he wasn't quite prepared for the, "Fine, if you kids can't get along, then NOBODY gets their holiday celebrated," answer.

 

[Evo]

Once they took the trees down, there was no point to his lawsuit, kind of left him with egg on his face.

I don't mind religious decorations, but the airport had a point, they don't have time to research all religions to make sure they aren't missing someone. I guess they could have a policy that if you are a recognized religion with a valid holiday during this time and you furnish the decoration, we'll put it up. That would cover them.

 

[Moonbear]

I don't think any Jew ever celebrated Hanukkah with a giant Hanukkiah before Jews saw Christians putting up Christmas trees and decorations. What's nice about Hanukkah is the fact every family lights up their own small Hanukkiah and puts it by the window to make a true festival of lights. As the song goes "we are each a small light, and together we make strong light". I don't see why an Orthodox Rabbi should complain about Christians not putting up a Jewish imitation of Christianity, let alone threatening them with a lawsuit... It has nothing to do with religion, he's probably just looking for publicity. Personally, it strikes me as a display of insecurity with one's religion. If that Rabbi put his mind to more positive things he would accomplish much more for Judaism and the world in general.

Yes, I think you're right. Hannukah was celebrated much more privately and personally when I was a kid than it is now.

Is it true that it's actually a fairly minor holiday in the Jewish religion? I've been told that before, and that the only reason it's such a big deal in the US is the desire of the parents to keep up with the gifts their kids Christian friends will be getting. It amazes me how much has changed about the way the holiday is celebrated in my own lifetime. When I was a kid, the Jewish kids would light a candle in the Hannukah each night (the youngest in the family, right?), and had a special dinner on one of the nights (is it the first or last night that's the big deal?), and would get little bags of Hannukah gelt. There were no huge presents for each night like they get now. By the time I was a teen and into my early 20s, they were already exchanging gifts, but it would just be something very small for 7 of the 8 nights (sort of the equivalent of Christmas stocking stuffers) and then one present on the 8th night. It seems to have morphed more into the kids getting a big present each night now, and decorating with Hannukah "bushes," which look suspiciously like Christmas trees decorated in white and blue ornaments. In a way, it's interesting to have seen such change over such a short number of years, because it demonstrates a bit of how easy it probably was to introduce things like evergreen trees into early Christmas celebrations too.

 

[Moonbear]

Once they took the trees down, there was no point to his lawsuit, kind of left him with egg on his face.

I don't mind religious decorations, but the airport had a point, they don't have time to research all religions to make sure they aren't missing someone. I guess they could have a policy that if you are a recognized religion with a valid holiday during this time and you furnish the decoration, we'll put it up. That would cover them.

I wouldn't have really cared if they didn't bother putting trees up again next year (or didn't bother putting them back up this year once down). To me, Christmas trees are pretty and fun, but the airport is the last place I'm worried about enjoying Christmas decorations.

That article Ivan linked to said that the individual airlines decorated their counters with small trees after the big ones were taken down, and since they are renting the space, they can decorate it however they want. So, why not just leave it to the individual airlines' employees to decorate their counters if they want them decorated, and not waste time on decorating the rest of the airport? When flights are being delayed in the week before Christmas due to snowstorms and overbooked flights, I'm sure that floor space will be more appreciated than the trees. Spend the money on extra pillows and blankets instead!