Should I Quit School and Enter the Job Market?

[ilii]

Hello,

I'm having a serious debate with myself as to whether or not I should continue going to University. Four years ago I was on the verge to complete a BA in Philosophy, but quit the program cold before entering my final semester (major motivational issues). I did some soul searching since then and realized that I am much more interested in Physics. I was recently accepted into a Bsc Physics program at the same school, and was planning on starting another four-year journey in about two weeks from now.

I canceled my plans to pursue a degree in Physics recently, and removed all of my upcoming courses from my timetable. I can't commit to another 4-5 years right now, due to my financial and social situation (living with parents in my mid-twenties). I still have the desire to learn physics, and may enroll once again into a physics program when I am older and financially independent.

My current situation consists of either going back to complete the BA in Philosophy, which I have no passion for whatsoever, or entering the job market without a degree. From what I've heard, a BA in an arts program may not improve my chances of landing a job, so I may just be wasting my time not learning industry-specific skills (like learning to code). If I plan to finish the BA, I will have one by Sept. 2016.

My parents really don't want me around anymore, and I don't blame them. I will not ask if I can live with members of my extended family, either. The second option entails struggling for a few years on my own (general labour, etc) while also learning to code on all of my free time/days off. Maybe after a certain period of time (not exactly sure how long this will take) I can land a job as a front-end web developer and make a OK living to start. Looking for some advice on which path I should take and please let me know if you see more options.

Thank you kindly

 

[symbolipoint]

You need a job. If you can find and keep any job, then maybe going to school for Mathematics, computer skills, and some engineering could be practical too. Physics, still maybe... but you want to be sure you have some learned and acquired skills to make you more employable for more than your just "general labor".

 

[ilii]

I understand

 

[MidgetDwarf]

Maybe, take the math and physics courses at a local community college? Since you have most of your general done from your previous philosophy stint. Not sure if this is viable from where you are from. I am from California, so different policies may apply. Will be cheaper and you won't have to pay big bucks for classes that are considered remedial, if indeed you have to take them.

 

[Dale]

I may just be wasting my time

You may be wasting one semester of time. So what?

 

[mathwonk]

you say you have no motivation. what about the motivation to get out of your parents' house and get a job and have a life? you need to finish something. how long would finishing the BA in philosophy take? and certainly those credits should be good towards another major. why would it take another 4 years to do a science degree when you have so many other courses? do you mean you have zero math/physics courses and need 4 years of them for a degree, yet you think you really want to do a degree in physics? i cannot believe that if you are still 4 years from a physics degree that you know enough about it to know that you want that degree either. make a plan to accomplish something in a finite amount of time and stick to it until you are done. and don't quit on the doorstep of completion this time. that's my advice, FWIW.

 

[ilii]

It's just really difficult for me to judge the value of the BA in Philosophy, and the uncertainty about job prospects is causing me a lot of stress. From what I've been told for years by family members, as well the time I have spent researching the subject on my own, is that nobody cares about a piece of paper that says if you have a BA or not (in the humanities). Employers are looking for experience, industry-specific skills, etc. I guess the point I am trying to make is that I can move out on my own now, get a job in an industry with some growth potential, and at the same time self-learn programming skills. My biggest fear is being stuck in the same spot that I am now after I graduate.

 

[ilii]

what about the motivation to get out of your parents' house and get a job and have a life? you need to finish something

not too sure what you mean here - is the correct solution to stay home, go back to school, and finish the degree? I can definitely move out now and manage some sort of basic existence for a while, but will certainly forfeit the degree at this point.

do you mean you have zero math/physics courses and need 4 years of them for a degree

correct, I have zero math/physics courses at the Uni level. I did get A's / A+'s in all of my maths/physics high school courses however. I know there is a giant leap from HS to Uni, but I can be very passionate about things I enjoy. I am certainly not passionate about Philosophy, and the thought of spending more money to go back to school for a subject I find dry is a very intimidating thought.

 

[PietKuip]

Philosophy is a diverse field, and some parts should be interesting when you have interests in physics: logic, philosophy/history of science, interpretations of quantum mechanics. In the final semester, I would expect you could choose something nice. (And almost everything gets interesting when you get into it.)

 

[ilii]

Philosophy is a diverse field, and some parts should be interesting when you have interests in physics: logic, philosophy/history of science, interpretations of quantum mechanics. In the final semester, I would expect you could choose something nice. (And almost everything gets interesting when you get into it.)

Yes it so happens that while I was still in the Philosophy program four years ago I enjoyed the logic-based courses the most. If I do re-enter the program I would take only those types of courses you mentioned.

 

[MidgetDwarf]

Good thing is, Math is logic based. Should be easier for someone with logic training to make the transition into mathematics.

 

[symbolipoint]

not too sure what you mean here - is the correct solution to stay home, go back to school, and finish the degree? I can definitely move out now and manage some sort of basic existence for a while, but will certainly forfeit the degree at this point.
correct, I have zero math/physics courses at the Uni level. I did get A's / A+'s in all of my maths/physics high school courses however. I know there is a giant leap from HS to Uni, but I can be very passionate about things I enjoy. I am certainly not passionate about Philosophy, and the thought of spending more money to go back to school for a subject I find dry is a very intimidating thought.

Maybe something other than Physics. You need to work, find a job, and go to school at least to learn some practical skills that could make you employable. Can you work maybe part time at some kind of labor and be a student, to study Mathematics and computer science (including programming)? Have you some interest in any Engineering, chemistry, or microbiology? Could you be just a student for a couple of years, and build some college course credit, MAYBE get an A.A. degree in something, and use that for greater job qualifications? Why restrict yourself to Physics? You have a goal to be independent and get out from your parents.

 

[Dale]

uncertainty about job prospects is causing me a lot of stress.

Same with every other working adult in the world. This is a poor excuse.

A degree in philosophy is not a golden ticket to sure riches and certain prosperity, but it beats no degree and it only costs you one semester.

nobody cares about a piece of paper that says if you have a BA or not (in the humanities).

Nobody does care, but not having one gets you automatically disqualified from a lot of jobs. That is one of the easiest criteria to filter applications.

 

[TMFKAN64]

nobody cares about a piece of paper that says if you have a BA or not

There are a lot of jobs that you can get either with or without a particular degree.

But in my experience, people *with* that piece of paper are usually paid a bit more and treated a bit better than those without.

 

[alw34]

{No degree is} That is one of the easiest criteria to filter applications.

good point.

Many would consider themselves blessed to have your opportunities.

Get a job, earn your keep, and take some evening courses to test if what you study is what you like. It's a tough regime but worthwhile earning and learning simultaneously.

But only you can decide how to stop drifting. Where would you like to be,say, five or ten years from now...give it some thought. Good luck

 

[JakeBrodskyPE]

When you write that you lost your passion for Philosophy, what do you mean? Why did that happen? What turned you off about it?

Conversely, when you write that you are suddenly interested in Physics. Why? What fascinates you?

Understanding your own whims might help you decide whether it is worth investing in still more education.

 

[ilii]

When you write that you lost your passion for Philosophy, what do you mean? Why did that happen? What turned you off about it?

I just need something solid and fundamental to focus my attention on. Math/Physics does this, while Philosophy seems to have a lot of fluff that can be entirely opinion based most of the time, if not all the time. The logic courses in Philosophy were alright when I took them.

 

[micromass]

What makes you like physics and what makes you want to spend a lot of time in physics. There are many good reasons to study physics, but also bad ones.
For example, if you watched a nice documentary on string theory and want to do the same. That would be a bad reason to get into physics.
Or maybe you think physics will provide you with certainty about philosophical ideas. It will tell you what nature really is. That would also be a bad reason.

I don't say you can't enjoy physics if you have these bad reasons. But if those are the main motivations for going into physics, you might end up disappointed.

 

[Intraverno]

I just need something solid and fundamental to focus my attention on. Math/Physics does this, while Philosophy seems to have a lot of fluff that can be entirely opinion based most of the time, if not all the time. The logic courses in Philosophy were alright when I took them.

If you're planning on studying physics just because it's something solid and fundamental, you're going to waste your time and money. One should only pursue physics if they REALLY love it and have a passion for it, and you don't seem to really have a good idea of what physics is like. It's not like it's portrayed in popular science books, and I echo the advice of the others that if I were you I would move out, get a low level general job to keep yourself going for a while, and take community college classes in different subjects to see what you'll enjoy. As far as money, computer science and engineering (especially petroleum engineering) are your best bets for a degree. I can't recommend enough that you look into petroleum engineering, if you find that you like it then you're going to be set for a well paying job as soon as you graduate. Definitely worth looking into, imo.

 

[StatGuy2000]

If you're planning on studying physics just because it's something solid and fundamental, you're going to waste your time and money. One should only pursue physics if they REALLY love it and have a passion for it, and you don't seem to really have a good idea of what physics is like. It's not like it's portrayed in popular science books, and I echo the advice of the others that if I were you I would move out, get a low level general job to keep yourself going for a while, and take community college classes in different subjects to see what you'll enjoy. As far as money, computer science and engineering (especially petroleum engineering) are your best bets for a degree. I can't recommend enough that you look into petroleum engineering, if you find that you like it then you're going to be set for a well paying job as soon as you graduate. Definitely worth looking into, imo.

Given the current low oil prices, does it really make sense to look into petroleum engineering at this stage (even factoring in that the price of oil may arise substantially)?

 

[Intraverno]

Given the current low oil prices, does it really make sense to look into petroleum engineering at this stage (even factoring in that the price of oil may arise substantially)?

All I know is that petroleum engineers are literally being bid on by companies straight out of college and sometimes making 6 figure salaries right away, and although things certainly seem to be improving with the economy from what I have seen this trend seems to be continuing. I have no firsthand experience here, this is what from others have told me as well as job reports, so my information could be outdated.

 

[WWGD]

Since you are in your mid-twenties, it may be a good idea to spend a semester-or-so working while you think carefully about what you want to do, as Micromass and JakeBrodsky suggested, to avoid another false start. Maybe you can negotiate with your parents one more semester in their place while pitching in through your job, and going through a description of classes in different majors. Once you are clear on what you want, things will fall into place more easily.

EDIT: I forgot to say that I agree with DaleSpam (and now Vela's post.) you are so close, get it out of the way , if you can stay at home with a part time job and maybe talk with your parents for advise while you finish.

 

[vela]

I'm with DaleSpam on this. Just finish the philosophy degree and graduate. It's only one more semester, and having that piece of paper will open some doors for you and possibly get you paid better. Then you can get a job, move out, and take physics and math classes if that's what you really want to do.

 

[ilii]

Thanks for the advice everyone, I am still listening.

 

[WWGD]

Don't you have counselors in your school who can guide you?

 

[Locrian]

I don't know that you should quit school, but I'm sure physics is a horrible idea. It isn't that there aren't practical areas of physics (there are lots), it's that you're probably not attracted to them. You're just trading one challenging, esoteric subject for another, and this one's going to turn out as well as the last.

Success is a habit. If you can do so quickly, go finish your philosphy degree and then re-evaluate after that.

 

[russ_watters]

Given the current low oil prices, does it really make sense to look into petroleum engineering at this stage (even factoring in that the price of oil may arise substantially)?

Yes.

 

[russ_watters]

Four years ago I was on the verge to complete a BA in Philosophy, but quit the program cold before entering my final semester (major motivational issues). I did some soul searching since then...

What have you done in the past 4 years besides "soul searching"?

It sounds to me like you need a dose of real life and motivation. Your parents may just provide it to you by changing the locks one day when you aren't home.

 

[ZapperZ]

To the OP: Based on your wishy-washyness and lack of any clear direction of what you want to do, I suggest you suspend your goal of getting a college degree and go to a trade school and learn some marketable skill such as plumbing, carpentry, electrical, etc... Even a medical technician will get you more a more in-demand skill than your philosophy degree.

Zz.

 

[Blank_Stare]

I live and work in the same county as the University of Michigan. There are several other colleges and universities here, besides the UofM.

I hired many dozens of "general laborers" in my career as a general contractor, before I retired.

Let me tell you, there were more than a few applicants that had "useless" degrees. (Liberal Arts and the Humanities aren't really useless, IMO, but they often don't translate into gainful employment after graduation...) When reveiwing employment applications, I always gave those a second look. Why? Simple - they had the stick-to-it-iveness to actually COMPLETE something that took years to accomplish. Which do you think an employer wants? - someone who stuck to his/her business, and finished what s/he started, even though s/he decided not to pursue it as a career, or someone who never made the effort, or simply couldn't be bothered to finished what they started?

Now, that doesn't give you much information about getting a job in the field you are educated in, nor does it speak to the fields you might be considering, but since you mentioned "general labor", I thought I would tell you where I have been.

To put it succinctly, get off your butt, and get the last semester finished. You'll feel better about yourself, your parents and other family will feel better about you, and any potential employer in any labor-trade is likely to give you a little better chance at that interim-position, while you sort out your future.

Good Luck!

 

[votingmachine]

I say get the BS/BA in Philosophy, and get a job. Finishing things is important. I may seem like a waste simply because you see no utility (other than perhaps a deep understanding of utility). But it will still be an "accomplishment" that will help a little in the job market. You can explain that you quit because it didn't interest you, and finished it because finishing is important. It shows some dedication, and some organization.

But then get a job. No one has to ever know what they want to make of life. As a philosopher, you surely understand that the things generally do not progress along a path of lifetime enlightenment ad progress. Figure out how to survive, make some money, save some money, do the things you think you ought to do, and some of the things you want to do.

I quit college after less than a year of primarily studying beer and pot. I worked years at whatever I could find, and eventually went to college in my 30's, following that with graduate school and then a different bunch of jobs. Some I loved, some I hated. I'm not going to give you a life plan, because most of my life didn't follow any plan ... it just happens. I do think that if you can finish undergrad in Philosophy by September 2016, that is close and it is worth it. See if you can increase the course load and finish faster though. Work hard at it, get it done, then move on.

 

[ilii]

Thanks to everyone who responded. I will take a while longer to think everything through. PF really is a great resource.

 

[ensign_nemo]

If you are just one semester away from a degree, then you should finish it.

Don't forget that employers want to hire someone who finishes a job once it is started.

You are 7/8ths finished with the task of getting a degree, so you should complete it.

 

[osuboone]

Hello,

I'm having a serious debate with myself as to whether or not I should continue going to University. Four years ago I was on the verge to complete a BA in Philosophy, but quit the program cold before entering my final semester (major motivational issues). I did some soul searching since then and realized that I am much more interested in Physics. I was recently accepted into a Bsc Physics program at the same school, and was planning on starting another four-year journey in about two weeks from now.

I canceled my plans to pursue a degree in Physics recently, and removed all of my upcoming courses from my timetable. I can't commit to another 4-5 years right now, due to my financial and social situation (living with parents in my mid-twenties). I still have the desire to learn physics, and may enroll once again into a physics program when I am older and financially independent.

My current situation consists of either going back to complete the BA in Philosophy, which I have no passion for whatsoever, or entering the job market without a degree. From what I've heard, a BA in an arts program may not improve my chances of landing a job, so I may just be wasting my time not learning industry-specific skills (like learning to code). If I plan to finish the BA, I will have one by Sept. 2016.

My parents really don't want me around anymore, and I don't blame them. I will not ask if I can live with members of my extended family, either. The second option entails struggling for a few years on my own (general labour, etc) while also learning to code on all of my free time/days off. Maybe after a certain period of time (not exactly sure how long this will take) I can land a job as a front-end web developer and make a OK living to start. Looking for some advice on which path I should take and please let me know if you see more options.

Thank you kindly

Finish the degree, get a job, the degree will help you in a lot of ways, as you gain experience in your career. No degree will often limit your promotions as you gain experience.

 

[Mark Harder]

I emphatically disagree with you and your friends about the value of a liberal arts/humanities degree. What you have learned is how to recognize patterns in thought and expression, how to read and write well (There's no end to education in these areas.), i.e. to express your own thoughts clearly, to employ logic in thought and expression. In studying philosophy, I would think, you were steeped in the history and analysis of ideas. I have college friends with BA degrees in international relations. Not one of them works in related fields. Yet they all have done quite well in careers in law and journalism.

Beware of the modern tendency to confuse education with training. Training is one variety of education, but training for a profession usually has narrow goals. You can be trained for nursing, for example, in nursing school. Other skills can be learned in those for-profit "colleges". Graduate and professional programs in universities focus on training students in fields like medicine, law, the sciences or teaching and researching, say philosophy or sociology. Taking courses like art history during graduate education in the sciences is very much frowned upon. You don't go this route to "broaden" your education; quite the opposite. Your last opportunity to indulge in study for curiosity's sake is college. I suggest that you take advantage of it. As an aside, some medical schools will accept some students from liberal arts programs, with some remedial courses. I'm not suggesting a career in medicine for you. Just an example of similar opportunities that may be out there.

To someone with an interest in science, especially foundational sciences like physics, the history and philosophy of science is a fascinating subject. If you haven't taken any courses in it, could you do so now? Just guessing, but you might be more interested in the intellectual content of physics than it's nuts and bolts, especially experimental physics. When you imagine yourself involved in a subject like particle physics, are you thinking about unified theories, Higgs Bosons, the nature of quantum mechanics and relativity theory? Or do imagine yourself building and running heavy colliders, telescopes, satellites, and so forth? Research in theoretical physics requires a facility with higher mathematics. Given the nature of your academic work, I wouldn't think you are one of those who have difficulty with abstract thought, but that's required too. Experimental physics requires less advanced math, but instead, perhaps, the ability to understand processes, the consequences of manual manipulations of concrete objects and systems of same. Engineering, in other words. Another aside: When Robert Oppenheimer began his graduate studies, he began with experimental physics and was flunking it. Since he initially planned a future in experimental physics, he became profoundly depressed. He recovered when he began anew in theoretical physics. Went from Cambridge to Gottingen, I believe.

Don't become hung up on false dilemmas. You could always attend a community college for remedial studies of math and physical sciences while you work part time. In my college town, there are lots of baristas, cabbies, etc. who are doing just that. Some are able to save enough money to travel and do other fun things, so I imagine you could make enough to pay tuition at some future date. On the other hand, you could become academically rusty if you dwell in the "real world" too long. After a full-time student's career, you can be amazed at the sorts of skills learning requires (like listening, thinking, and writing at the same time). True in my case, anyway (I'm retired.) If I had to take one-hour tests in the chem courses I tutor, I'd surely flunk out. Working while studying will take more time, and may require more self-discipline than full-time studies. But if you're sufficiently passionate about physics, you should be able to hack it. You might not have to live at home if you share living spaces with roommates ( Grad physics students,? You watch "Big Bang Theory"? On second thought, maybe not. ) Don't worry too much about how an unorthodox career path like this will look to graduate admissions officers. You had a change in heart, in your junior/senior year, completed your degree and then went back for a physical sciences degree. Financial resources necessitated part-time studies. They've probably seen successful students who've done that. But they will probe your motivations. Be clear about these; be prepared. If accepted to a grad program, you'd have to come up with graduate tuition without outside work, but there are teaching assistantships and other ways to pay part of your expenses.

Given all your uncertainties, you would probably benefit from talking with people in the field, in order to get a rough idea of the nature of a physics career. On the other hand, don't blindly accept everything they may say. Stay open to a diversity of views. Note the plural "people", not "someone". If professors and so forth are too intimidating at this stage, have a chat with grad students over a beer or coffee.