Should Juvenile Boot Camps Use Violent Methods?

[franznietzsche]

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/13951780.htm

TALLAHASSEE - In the aftermath of Martin Lee Anderson's death after he was beaten by guards at a juvenile boot camp, state officials want sheriffs to do away with the violent ways of handling kids: No more punches. No more pepper spray. No stun guns.

The Department of Juvenile Justice has told the sheriffs who run the state's five boot camps that the measures will help ensure there will never again be an incident that resembles the videotaped beating of the 14-year-old at the Bay Boot Camp by a scrum of kneeing and punching military-style drill instructors.

Among the measures DJJ wants:

• Ban the punching, kneeing, wrist-twisting and pressure-point-pushing on nonviolent kids, and prohibit the use of ''electronic devices'' like stun guns and the use of ''chemical agents,'' such as mace-like pepper spray.

• A nurse must be present when youths exercise, and must have complete authority to halt it and call 911.

• Give each youth an EKG heart-stress test, a complete physical and drug test.

• Ensure cameras and defibrillators are readily available.

...
``It depends on the situation. If it's appropriate to use hammer strikes [punches] or knee strikes, then it is used. If it's not appropriate then someone is acting outside of the scope of their employment and therefore it's outside the scope of the employment and is breaching the curriculum and their training.''
...

Now I would agree that there are times when kids need discipline, and to have the law laid down by an adult, even to the point of physical punishment, but this is disturbing to me, to the point of being truly sickening. Can this be real?

 

[Pengwuino]

Which part do you find 'truly sickening'?

I find most of it pretty sickening. No stun guns? No mace? This isn't a summer camp. I'm also willing to give them leeway on the idea that occasionally you have to knee some of these guys. Kids are violent as hell and when you go off and cherry pick the violent ones (by them being criminals, not by the state going out and taking them for no reason) and round them up, you better be able to use... "non-preferred" methods to keep these people in-line.

 

[tribdog]

but it sounds like they use physical punishment for non physical offenses. I don't want some want to be cop using a hammer punch or knee strike because a kid didn't march in formation correctly.

 

[Pengwuino]

but it sounds like they use physical punishment for non physical offenses. I don't want some want to be cop using a hammer punch or knee strike because a kid didn't march in formation correctly.

Where are you able to come to that conclusion? The guy sounded like a beuarocrat giving beuarocrat answers which are meaningless. Then of course we have the reporter ending the article with a part of what some 14 year old whos probably lying has to say. Journalism at its best

 

[tribdog]

• Ban the punching, kneeing, wrist-twisting and pressure-point-pushing on nonviolent kids, and prohibit the use of ''electronic devices'' like stun guns and the use of ''chemical agents,'' such as mace-like pepper spray.if they want to ban these things against nonviolent kids they they must not be banned now. If they are not being used why ban them?
I'm sure people would be against giving the kids hot coffee enemas, but they aren't banned because they aren't being used.

 

[franznietzsche]

but it sounds like they use physical punishment for non physical offenses. I don't want some want to be cop using a hammer punch or knee strike because a kid didn't march in formation correctly.

Indeed. I understand that these kids are criminals, and heavy-handed measures may be necessary, but the description in the article is worrisome. There comes a point where its torture, not discipline. And again, this is about the use of these methods on nonviolent kids. Not the violent ones.

 

[Pengwuino]

Indeed. I understand that these kids are criminals, and heavy-handed measures may be necessary, but the description in the article is worrisome. There comes a point where its torture, not discipline. And again, this is about the use of these methods on nonviolent kids. Not the violent ones.

The problem is none of the descriptions have any proof of ever actually happening. I could say krispy kreme doesn't have a ban against putting cyanide in their donuts but that wouldn't worry me until i saw proof that someone actually did put cyanide in their donuts

 

[zoobyshoe]

There are numerous cases that have come to light in our history of prisons and mental institutions becoming playgrounds for sadistic guards. This is another case of that. They aren't inspected and monitored closely enough by outside agencies.

 

[tribdog]

plus 9 times out of 10 a prison guard is someone who was picked on as a kid, but couldn't hack it as a policeman. I completely made this fact up and any resemblance to a correct statistic is purely coincidental.

 

[Pengwuino]

There are numerous cases that have come to light in our history of prisons and mental institutions becoming playgrounds for sadistic guards. This is another case of that. They aren't inspected and monitored closely enough by outside agencies.

No this is POSSIBLY another case of people acting possibly sadistic. Its probability is indeed low as well.

 

[zoobyshoe]

plus 9 times out of 10 a prison guard is someone who was picked on as a kid, but couldn't hack it as a policeman. I completely made this fact up and any resemblance to a correct statistic is purely coincidental.

Oh, some things are really inappropriate to joke about, trib.

 

[tribdog]

name three.

 

[franznietzsche]

No this is POSSIBLY another case of people acting possibly sadistic. Its probability is indeed low as well.

I doubt its low at all. The article does cite a case, one kid died. Try actually reading it.

 

[Artman]

My company does work for the prison system and we are occassionally sent inside on surveys. They may call these places "Boot Camps," but they are prisons. If you take away the stun guns and the mace and pepper spray, you are leaving the guards with real guns. They won't be unarmed.

Proper supervision of the guards and prompt investigation of allegations of mistreatment would probably do more to curb these events.