Should SAT Scores Be Eliminated from College Admissions?

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In summary, experts say that IQ and SAT scores are reliable predictors of potential and complex reasoning ability. However, efforts to eliminate the use of SATs in college admissions can result in longer graduation times, increased academic probation, and a less stimulating learning environment for highly capable students. While some may argue that IQ tests are not a valid measure of intelligence, they do provide consistent results and can measure certain properties of an individual, even if we do not fully understand what those properties may be. Ultimately, the accuracy of Wikipedia is not the focus of this conversation, but rather the use of IQ and SAT scores in predicting potential and the potential consequences of eliminating them in the college admissions process.
  • #1
elfboy
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IQ & SAT scores are a reliable predicator of potential, complex reasoning ability says experts

Efforts to do away with SATs in college admissions process results in longer graduation times, more academic probation, and diminished learning environmental for more mentally capable students.
 
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  • #2
elfboy said:
IQ & SAT scores are a reliable predicator of potential, complex reasoning ability says experts

Efforts to do away with SATs in college admissions process results in longer graduation times, more academic probation, and diminished learning environmental for more mentally capable students.

Source?
 
  • #3
i'm not sure changing the name of the SAT automagically makes it an IQ test now

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT
 
  • #4
elfboy said:
Efforts to do away with SATs in college admissions process results in longer graduation times, more academic probation, and diminished learning environmental for more mentally capable students.

Sounds like the College Board wrote that...

I think IQ tests are stupid.
 
  • #5
jhae2.718 said:
I think IQ tests are stupid.

They are not stupid, they measure something. If ruler gives consistent results, it is not stupid.

We just don't know what they measure.
 
  • #6
Borek said:
They are not stupid, they measure something. If ruler gives consistent results, it is not stupid.

We just don't know what they measure.

If we do not know what these tests measure other than how well you do on iq questions, then isn't it stupid to take the tests and infer conclusions from the results?
 
  • #7
Oerg said:
If we do not know what these tests measure other than how well you do on iq questions, then isn't it stupid to take the tests and infer conclusions from the results?

Drawing conclusions from results we don't understand is stupid, it doesn't mean result is stupid.

Note: I am not defending IQ tests, all I am saying is if they give consistent results they do measure some property of the object tested. Properties are not stupid - in the worst case they are useless.
 
  • #8
Borek said:
Drawing conclusions from results we don't understand is stupid, it doesn't mean result is stupid.

Note: I am not defending IQ tests, all I am saying is if they give consistent results they do measure some property of the object tested. Properties are not stupid - in the worst case they are useless.


"Stupid" and "useless" are synonymous words among the general, less educated population. :biggrin:
 
  • #9
I would be willing to venture a guess that IQ test results are correlated with success in certain fields, but not in others. IQ tests are very limited on what kind of intelligence they test.
 
  • #10
Newai said:
"Stupid" and "useless" are synonymous words among the general, less educated population. :biggrin:

Flanders:
"Ignorant" and "stupid" don't mean the same thing...

Homer:
Well they do to me!
 
  • #11
Chi Meson said:
Flanders:
"Ignorant" and "stupid" don't mean the same thing...

Homer:
Well they do to me!

That's.

Perfect.
 
  • #12
Chi Meson said:
Flanders:
"Ignorant" and "stupid" don't mean the same thing...

Homer:
Well they do to me!

\two thumbs up
 
  • #13
Proton Soup said:
i'm not sure changing the name of the SAT automagically makes it an IQ test now

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT

Is Wikipedia considered a reliable source now?
 
  • #14
Geezer said:
Is Wikipedia considered a reliable source now?

Not in any serious context.
 
  • #15
jhae2.718 said:
Not in any serious context.

Care to wager a gentleman's bet of exactly ZERO dollars that Wikipedia is more accurate on average than the collective knowledge-base of all Ivy League academics?

Should you accept the wager, please don't expect me to prove it. The studies to confirm or disconfirm will come in time; and the purpose of posts such as this one is to encourage qualified academics to conduct the relevant studies.

TEST:
What is the average semimajor-axis distance between the planets and the SUN, expressed in AU?

Is the best answer to be found in textbooks or upon Wikipedia?Raphie

RELATED:
"Here Comes Everybody" by Clay Shirky
 
  • #16
Geezer said:
Is Wikipedia considered a reliable source now?

you have some reason to think it tests IQ and not academic preparedness?
 
  • #17
Borek said:
Properties are not stupid - in the worst case they are useless.

Actually, Borek, in the worst case, "properties" lead to genocide. But who's to quibble?

- RF

P.S. Stephen Pinkerton's "The Blank Slate" is well worth a read for those interested in how knowledge can be misused.
 
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  • #18
Raphie said:
Care to wager a gentleman's bet of exactly ZERO dollars that Wikipedia is more accurate on average than the collective knowledge-base of all Ivy League academics?

Should you accept the wager, please don't expect me to prove it. The studies to confirm or disconfirm will come in time; and the purpose of posts such as this one is to encourage qualified academics to conduct the relevant studies.

TEST:
What is the average semimajor-axis distance between the planets and the SUN, expressed in AU?

Is the best answer to be found in textbooks or upon Wikipedia?Raphie

RELATED:
"Here Comes Everybody" by Clay Shirky

There was a study published in Nature that found Wikipedia and Encyclopedia Britannica had a similar level of scientific errors.

However, in a more serious context, the standard is papers in peer-reviewed journals, as well as, perhaps, conference papers. I use Wikipedia for casual fact-checking all the time, but I wouldn't ever cite something from Wikipedia.

The accuracy of Wikipedia, however, is not the subject of this thread. In order to avoid further derailment, I will refrain from further comments on Wikipedia.
 
  • #19
jhae2.718 said:
There was a study published in Nature that found Wikipedia and Encyclopedia Britannica had a similar level of scientific errors.

However, in a more serious context...

Would you mind sourcing this (as I find it quite interesting...) in more specific manner before becoming "serious" in regards to subsequent statements?

And... just for fun, care to comment on how those findings might reflect upon "societal IQ" versus, for instance, "individual IQ"?

- RF
 
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  • #20
Most evidence shows that even schizophrenia does not significantly alter the IQ of the patient from the premorbid to morbid state.

"...their innate IQ is not necessarily impaired, but their ability to demonstrate their IQ is impaired."

Dr. E. Fuller Torrey, Surviving Schizophrenia.
 
  • #21
IQ tests were originally designed to identify children who need extra education, ie those 'low intelligence'. The guy who devised them did not believe intelligence was a fixed quantity.
 
  • #22
Raphie said:
Would you mind sourcing this (as I find it quite interesting...) in more specific manner before becoming "serious" in regards to subsequent statements?

And... just for fun, care to comment on how those findings might reflect upon "societal IQ" versus, for instance, "individual IQ"?

- RF

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7070/full/438900a.html
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7070/pdf/438900a.pdf"
 
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  • #23
jhae2.718 said:
There was a study published in Nature that found Wikipedia and Encyclopedia Britannica had a similar level of scientific errors.

Links to that study were posted here on PF some time in the last year.

Since then, a couple of studies have shown Wikipedia is slightly more accurate than Britannica, which is huge, considering the fact that Wikipedia covers many times more content than Britannica.

The accuracy of Wikipedia, however, is not the subject of this thread. In order to avoid further derailment, I will refrain from further comments on Wikipedia.

I think it's noteworthy of the effect of a collective/societal IQ, provided the knowledge is well-written, well-organized, and easily accessible, but only if the appropriate controls exist to ensure that false/bad information is quickly detected and reverted.

jhae2.718 said:
Not in any serious context.

For this statement to be taken seriously, one would have to prove that, currently, Britannica is significantly more accurate than Wikipedia. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4530930.stm" .

Wikipedia is doing a much better job of things these days than it did during its first few years.
 
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FAQ: Should SAT Scores Be Eliminated from College Admissions?

Should SAT scores be eliminated from college admissions?

This is a complex question that has been debated for years. Supporters of eliminating SAT scores argue that the test is biased and does not accurately predict a student's success in college. On the other hand, opponents argue that the test provides a standardized measure of academic ability and helps level the playing field for students from different backgrounds.

What are the main arguments for eliminating SAT scores from college admissions?

One of the main arguments for eliminating SAT scores is that the test is biased towards certain groups of students, such as those from low-income or minority backgrounds. Critics also argue that the test does not accurately measure a student's potential for success in college, as it mainly tests for test-taking skills and not overall academic ability.

What are the main arguments against eliminating SAT scores from college admissions?

Opponents of eliminating SAT scores argue that the test provides a standardized measure of academic ability and helps colleges compare students from different backgrounds on a level playing field. They also argue that removing the SAT would place more emphasis on other factors, such as grades and extracurricular activities, which can also be biased or difficult to compare across schools.

Are there any alternatives to using SAT scores in college admissions?

Yes, there are alternative methods that colleges can use to evaluate applicants. Some schools have adopted test-optional admissions policies, where students can choose whether or not to submit their SAT scores. Others use a holistic approach, considering a combination of factors such as grades, essays, and letters of recommendation.

What impact would eliminating SAT scores have on the college admissions process?

If SAT scores were eliminated from the college admissions process, it would likely shift the focus to other factors, such as grades, essays, and extracurricular activities. This could potentially benefit students who do not perform well on standardized tests, but it could also make the admissions process more subjective and potentially biased towards those with more resources and opportunities.

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