Sign of Frictional Torque in Pulley Equation

In summary, the conversation discusses the use of Newton's second law to calculate the frictional torque acting on a uniform solid cylinder pulley with two hanging masses. The sign of the frictional torque is determined by the direction of the pulley's rotation, which depends on the initial direction of the heavier mass. It is important to pay attention to signage when setting up the equations for this problem.
  • #1
hitemup
81
2

Homework Statement



A string passing over a pulley has a 3.80 kg mass hanging from one end and a 3.15 kg mass hanging from the other end. The pulley is a uniform solid cylinder of radius 0.04 m and mass 0.80 kg.
It is found that if the heavier mass is give a downward speed of 0.20 m/s, it comes to rest in 6.2 s. What is the average frictional torque acting on the pulley?

Homework Equations



T = F*r
F = ma
T = I* alpha

The Attempt at a Solution



Newton's second law for masses:

FTA - mag= ma*a (the heavier one)
mb*g -FTB = mb*a

For the pulley:

FTB*rpulley(ccw-positive) - FTA*rpulley(cw-negative) + (+-_____ )= I*alpha

The pulley is rotating ccw, so I thought I had to write minus friction because the friction must be opposite of rotation direction, but then saw this and got really confused.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...que-acting-on-the-pulley.232961/#post-1716480

Determining the sign of frictional torque in this equation, should it be positive or negative?
 
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  • #2
Assuming the heavier mass is on the right and the lighter on the left, and given that the heavier one is pushed down and accelerates up, which way is the pulley rotating before it stops?
 
  • #3
PhanthomJay said:
Assuming the heavier mass is on the right and the lighter on the left, and given that the heavier one is pushed down and accelerates up, which way is the pulley rotating before it stops?

I think no matter what the acceleration is, for your question, it rotates clockwise as long as the heavy mass has that downward velocity. (until v = 0)
In my calculations, I assumed that the heavy mass was on the left.
 
Last edited:
  • #4
Heavy on left moving down implies ccw pulley rotation ...yes , no , maybe? Watch signage it is not easy.
 
  • #5
PhanthomJay said:
Heavy on left moving down implies ccw pulley rotation ...yes , no , maybe? Watch signage it is not easy.
Heavy on left (F_T1) and let ccw be positive
(FT1-FT2)*r - Tfrictional = I* alpha

Since rotation and acceleration are in different directions for the pulley, I should've written minus I*alpha for my setup, right?
 
  • #6
Yes. So for clarity, your last equation using A and B instead of 1 and 2 is?
 

FAQ: Sign of Frictional Torque in Pulley Equation

1. What is frictional torque sign?

Frictional torque sign is a measurement of the amount of torque or rotational force that is required to overcome the friction between two surfaces in contact.

2. How is frictional torque sign calculated?

Frictional torque sign is calculated by multiplying the coefficient of friction between the two surfaces by the force applied perpendicular to the surfaces.

3. What factors affect the value of frictional torque sign?

The value of frictional torque sign can be affected by the type of surfaces in contact, the amount of force applied, the smoothness of the surfaces, and the presence of any lubricants.

4. What is the difference between static and dynamic frictional torque sign?

Static frictional torque sign refers to the initial resistance to motion between two surfaces, while dynamic frictional torque sign refers to the resistance to motion once the surfaces are already in motion.

5. Why is understanding frictional torque sign important in engineering?

Understanding frictional torque sign is important in engineering because it allows for the design and optimization of mechanical systems, as well as the prediction of potential failures due to excessive friction.

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