Simple Issue with Submodules - Northcott, Proposition 2, pages 7-8

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In summary, Northcott defines a submodule in terms of the inclusion mapping, and then presents Proposition 2 and its proof. Northcott argues that under the definition of a submodule and before the statement and proof of Proposition 2, " ... ... Let a_1, a_2 belong to A and let r be an element of R. Since the image of the sum of a_1 \text{ and } a_2 is the sum of their separate images, we see that a_1 + a_2 is the same whether we regard a_1, a_2 as elements of A or as elements of N. ... ... etc. etc. "Essentially, Northcott seems to
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I am reading D. G. Northcott's book, Lessons on Rings, Modules and Multiplicities.

On pages 7 and 8, Northcott defines submodules in terms of the inclusion mapping, and then presents Proposition 2 and its proof as follows:
https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/3500
View attachment 3501Under the definition of a submodule and before the statement and proof of Proposition 2, Northcott makes the following argument: (Note I have changed the notation to fit with Proposition 2)" ... ... Let \(\displaystyle a_1, a_2\) belong to \(\displaystyle A\) and let \(\displaystyle r\) be an element of \(\displaystyle R\). Since the image of the sum of \(\displaystyle a_1 \text{ and } a_2\) is the sum of their separate images, we see that \(\displaystyle a_1 + a_2\) is the same whether we regard \(\displaystyle a_1, a_2\) as elements of \(\displaystyle A\) or as elements of \(\displaystyle N\). ... ... etc. etc. "Essentially, Northcott seems to be saying that

\(\displaystyle a_1, a_2 \in A \)

and

\(\displaystyle j(a_1 + a_2) = j(a_1) + j(a_2) = a_1 + a_2\)

means that (but how exactly does it follow?)

if \(\displaystyle a_1, a_2 \in A\) then \(\displaystyle a_1 + a_2 \in A\)

Can someone demonstrate rigorously that this is in fact true - I do not completely follow Northcott's argument ...

Help will be appreciated ... ...

Peter
 
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  • #2
Hi Peter,
Peter said:
Essentially, Northcott seems to be saying that

\(\displaystyle a_1, a_2 \in A \)

and

\(\displaystyle j(a_1 + a_2) = j(a_1) + j(a_2) = a_1 + a_2\)

means that (but how exactly does it follow?)

if \(\displaystyle a_1, a_2 \in A\) then \(\displaystyle a_1 + a_2 \in A\)

\(\displaystyle A\) is a submodule, so it must be closed with respect to the sum, without needing any more conditions.
This is not the point of what the book is saying.

In the book you have three modules, \(\displaystyle A\subseteq M \subseteq N\) (I'm not following the notation) and he is proving that, if the inclusion is a module homomorphism, then the sum in A and the sum in M are the same map over the elements in A.

I mean, as long as you have two modules you have defined
\(\displaystyle \begin{array}{cccc}+_{A}:& A \times A & \longrightarrow A \\ & (x,y)& \mapsto & x+_{A}y\end{array}\)

and

\(\displaystyle \begin{array}{cccc}+_{M}:& M \times M & \longrightarrow M \\ & (x,y)& \mapsto & x+_{M}y\end{array}\)

He proves that \(\displaystyle +_{M}|_{A}=+_{A}\)
 
  • #3
Fallen Angel said:
Hi Peter,

\(\displaystyle A\) is a submodule, so it must be closed with respect to the sum, without needing any more conditions.
This is not the point of what the book is saying.

In the book you have three modules, \(\displaystyle A\subseteq M \subseteq N\) (I'm not following the notation) and he is proving that, if the inclusion is a module homomorphism, then the sum in A and the sum in M are the same map over the elements in A.

I mean, as long as you have two modules you have defined
\(\displaystyle \begin{array}{cccc}+_{A}:& A \times A & \longrightarrow A \\ & (x,y)& \mapsto & x+_{A}y\end{array}\)

and

\(\displaystyle \begin{array}{cccc}+_{M}:& M \times M & \longrightarrow M \\ & (x,y)& \mapsto & x+_{M}y\end{array}\)

He proves that \(\displaystyle +_{M}|_{A}=+_{A}\)
Hi Fallen Angel,

Thanks for the help ... appreciate it ...

Still reflecting on what you have written ...

Thanks again,

Peter

***EDIT*** Just re-read your post ... ... yes, very clear ... most helpful ... thanks!
 

FAQ: Simple Issue with Submodules - Northcott, Proposition 2, pages 7-8

What is the main issue with submodules in Northcott's Proposition 2?

The main issue with submodules in Northcott's Proposition 2 is that they can lead to circular reasoning. This means that the submodule may rely on the main module for its proof, while the main module also relies on the submodule for its proof. This creates a loop in the reasoning and makes it difficult to determine the validity of the argument.

How does Northcott address this issue in Proposition 2?

In Proposition 2, Northcott addresses this issue by introducing a new concept called "independent submodules." These are submodules that do not rely on the main module for their proof, and thus do not contribute to circular reasoning. By using independent submodules, Northcott is able to avoid the issue of circular reasoning and strengthen the validity of his argument.

Why is it important to address the issue of circular reasoning in submodules?

It is important to address the issue of circular reasoning in submodules because it can weaken the overall argument and make it more difficult to prove. Circular reasoning can also lead to false conclusions and undermine the credibility of the research. By addressing this issue, scientists can ensure the validity and reliability of their findings.

Are there any alternative solutions to the issue of circular reasoning in submodules?

Yes, there are alternative solutions to the issue of circular reasoning in submodules. One approach is to use external sources or evidence to support the main module and submodules. This can help to break the circular reasoning loop and provide additional support for the argument. Another solution is to carefully evaluate the logic and evidence used in both the main module and submodules to ensure there are no contradictions or circular reasoning present.

How can the use of submodules be beneficial in scientific research?

The use of submodules can be beneficial in scientific research as it allows for a more thorough and in-depth analysis of a particular topic. Submodules can provide a more detailed understanding of specific aspects of a larger concept and can help to support the main module's arguments. Additionally, submodules can be used to address potential counterarguments or alternative explanations, making the overall argument stronger and more comprehensive.

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