Small big problem with integrals

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In summary, the conversation discusses the use of substitution in integration and the potential mistakes that can occur. The speaker mentions two examples, one where the substitution is not bijective and the other where the mistake is in the choice of substitution. They also mention the possibility of getting an incorrect result when solving an integral, which can be avoided by using proper substitution techniques or integrating along a specific path.
  • #1
MAGNIBORO
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hi, This is a bit embarrassing But I do not understand what the problem is with this change of variable.
suppose
$$\int_{0}^{\pi }sin(u)\,du = 2$$
now make the change ## sin(u)=v ## , ## du = \frac{dv}{\sqrt{1-v^2}} ##
$$\int_{0}^{0}\frac{v}{\sqrt{1-v^2}} \, dv = 0$$
other example,
$$\int_{0}^{2\pi } n\, \, 2cos(n)sin(n) \, dn = -\pi$$
make the change ## sin^{2}(n) = x ## , ## 2 cos(n)sin(n) dn = dx ##
$$\int_{0}^{0 } \arcsin(\sqrt{x})\, \, dx = 0 $$

Now, the mistake is to suppose this? :
$$\int_{a}^{a } f(x)\, \, dx = 0$$
This is like an indeterminate form?
The correct way would be Apply limits like this?
$$\lim_{\varepsilon \rightarrow 0}\, \int_{a }^{a+\varepsilon } f(x) \, dx = 0$$

thanks
 
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  • #2
Substitution doesn't work that way if the substitution is not bijective.

In the first example, you use ##\cos x = \sqrt{1-\sin^2 x}##, but that only works as long as the cosine is positive. In the middle of your integration range it changes sign.
You can split the integral in two parts (0 to pi/2 and pi/2 to pi) and substitute in each one individually, then you get a proper non-zero integral.
 
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  • #3
mfb said:
Substitution doesn't work that way if the substitution is not bijective.

In the first example, you use ##\cos x = \sqrt{1-\sin^2 x}##, but that only works as long as the cosine is positive. In the middle of your integration range it changes sign.
You can split the integral in two parts (0 to pi/2 and pi/2 to pi) and substitute in each one individually, then you get a proper non-zero integral.
thanks for replying , and the second example I guess the error is in ##\arcsin(\sqrt(x))##.
But can happen the case when solving an integral Give me the result
$$ \int_{a}^{a } f(x)\, \, dx $$
Has it ever happened to you?
 
  • #4
That will never be the result of a proper substitution unless the initial integral has the same form, or unless you integrate along a path (e. g. in the complex plane).
 
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FAQ: Small big problem with integrals

What is a "small big problem with integrals"?

A "small big problem with integrals" refers to a situation where the integrand (the function being integrated) is continuous, but the integral is not. This can occur when the function has a discontinuity or singularity in its domain, making it difficult to accurately evaluate the integral.

Why are these problems considered "small"?

These problems are considered "small" because they typically involve a relatively simple integrand and can often be solved through various techniques such as substitution, integration by parts, or partial fractions.

Why are these problems also considered "big"?

These problems are considered "big" because even though the integrand may be simple, the integral itself can be very complex and difficult to evaluate. It may require advanced mathematical techniques or numerical methods to find an accurate solution.

How do scientists encounter these problems in their work?

Scientists often encounter these problems when trying to model real-world phenomena using mathematical equations. These equations may contain integrals that are not easily solvable, leading to the need for new approaches or approximations to find a solution.

What are some possible solutions to "small big problems with integrals"?

Some possible solutions to these problems include using numerical methods such as Simpson's rule or the trapezoidal rule to approximate the integral, breaking the integral into smaller, solvable parts, or using mathematical software to find a numerical solution. In some cases, it may also be possible to use advanced techniques such as contour integration or residue calculus to solve the integral.

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