So the french are good for something

[cepheid]

Yeah! I'm French AND American, I'm hated by everyone!

You aren't hated by anyone here!

Tsunami's advice is wise...no more French bashing or American bashing. I had two French roommates this summer, and they were great guys. When they went back home, one of them said bemusedly that he could see why there was a perception of French people as being slightly snobbish. So we all had our perspectives changed and our horizons broadened with that experience. People are just people, the world over.

Governments are the problem. Governments with hidden agendas...whose only concern is self interest. I've heard some bad things about the hidden motivations of the French government, but I don't know enough to form an opinion. As for the American government, I strongly disapprove of its policies, and disklike Bush intensely, but I shouldn't let that jade my view of the American people. Indeed, we Canadians do seem to enjoy poking fun at American igonorance about the world. However, seeing that my knowledge of
American geography is actually quite sketchy, does that make me any better?

Hmm...oh yeah...about the "unprecedented attack" thing...could he perhaps have meant unprovoked? But I thought it was provoked...somebody mentiond that. Oh well...whatever.

 

[vanesch]

Why do you think that might be then?

Not that they had big trade links with Saddam (despite the sanctions), insulted the new nations about to join the EU, ruin third world agriculture by insisting on the EU Common Agricultural Policy that uses taxpayers money to subsidide their farmers and dump waste on world markets at less than cost price...

Oh, and haven't France just wiped out the Ivory Coast air force in an unprecedented attack?

So ignorant...

"the French" didn't have any more trade links with Saddam than "the Americans". Maybe some businessmen did, so what ?

Chirac said indeed something stupid to the Polish gouvernment about their support for the US and their distance from the EU when they were about to enter the EU. That was stupid on his part. But "the French" didn't insult anybody. One can discuss about the EU Common Agricultural Policy, but again, it is not "the French". The idea is that we want to keep agriculture in Europe, which is not competitive, because we don't want to be dependent on other nations for agricultural products. If we didn't, most agriculture would simply disappear in the EU.

The Ivory coast thing is a UN mission.

 

[Tsu]

I'm French and Canadian, doubly hated by the Americans

Wait! Smurf! In all of my many years of living on the west coast I've never heard anyone dissing Canadians over anything! Well, maybe except your strange love of hockey...

Seriously, though. Have some Americans made you guys feel like we hate you? Geez. I sure hope not. That would really stink. Everyone I know loves Canadians. :!)

 

[Smurf]

I was referring the mild rivalry in the mid west, no one in the whole world hates Canadians, that'd just be silly.

 

[revelator]

There is a good bit of political division here between the west and the east. I know support for Bush's policies, and conservative ideology grows as you go west of Ontario and east of British Columbia. With the most support for him being in Alberta.

Interestingly enough, Alberta has hit it rich recently (they've paid off all their debts) due to the skyrocketing price oil.

 

[JasonRox]

There is a good bit of political division here between the west and the east. I know support for Bush's policies, and conservative ideology grows as you go west of Ontario and east of British Columbia. With the most support for him being in Alberta.

Interestingly enough, Alberta has hit it rich recently (they've paid off all their debts) due to the skyrocketing price oil.

Yeah and privatizing hospitals and trying to ruin Canada's great health care system.

What else did they do?

Hmm... slapped every lower/middle income families with higher taxes and to top it off they aren't lowering it even if the debt the is paid off.

Something sounds fishy...

 

[Adrian Baker]

So ignorant...

"the French" didn't have any more trade links with Saddam than "the Americans". Maybe some businessmen did, so what ?

Chirac said indeed something stupid to the Polish gouvernment about their support for the US and their distance from the EU when they were about to enter the EU. That was stupid on his part. But "the French" didn't insult anybody. One can discuss about the EU Common Agricultural Policy, but again, it is not "the French". The idea is that we want to keep agriculture in Europe, which is not competitive, because we don't want to be dependent on other nations for agricultural products. If we didn't, most agriculture would simply disappear in the EU.

The Ivory coast thing is a UN mission.

How can you call me ignorant when you agree with all the points I raise!

- Yes the French had big links with Saddam (as did some other nations), but that is no excuse.

- Yes Chirac insulted new nations to the EU in a very arrogant manner.

- Yes the CAP uses taxpayers money to support ineffecient farmers - and reform is continually blocked by the French. New nations to the EU aren't allowed the same deal that the French get as it is to costly. These subsidies, and dumping of produce on the world market at below cost price, are causing poverty in poor developing nations who can't compete at the dumped price and aren't 'allowed' to sell produce within the EU. Most agriculture wouldn't 'disappear in the EU' if we reformed it - it would be more efficient, but the French Govt. block all attempts to change it. Try justifying the CAP to Africa farmers.

- The Ivory Coast fiasco has nothing whatsoever to do with the UN. The French Government (not the UN, not with UN approval) sent in their forces to COMPLETELY DESTROY the entire Ivory Coast air force. There is now chaos, rioting and looting going on, and the UK Govt (amongst others) is doing everything it can to get its citizens out of there. What would you have said if Bush had done this? Do you actually know anything about what is happening in the Ivory Coast??

I have no problem with French people, but their Govt acts in a corrupt and underhand manner, treats other nations with contempt and has a self inflated view of its own importance... rather like those who call others 'ignorant' when they don't like awkward facts!

 

[Smurf]

- The Ivory Coast fiasco has nothing whatsoever to do with the UN. The French Government (not the UN, not with UN approval) sent in their forces to COMPLETELY DESTROY the entire Ivory Coast air force. There is now chaos, rioting and looting going on, and the UK Govt (amongst others) is doing everything it can to get its citizens out of there. What would you have said if Bush had done this? Do you actually know anything about what is happening in the Ivory Coast??

It's my understanding that the French didn't need UN approval to retalliate against an attack.

The US was expected to in iraq because they:
1. Weren't attacked first.
2. Were launching a full out invasion.
3. This was just part of a continuing hostility since the second gulf war.

If the USA had been attacked in say.. Turkey, and they retalliated by wiping out turkeys air force, as much as I hate the American government, I would be forced to admit that they had the right. I do not believe it was an accident as the ivory coast government is saying, they're the same ones that are broadcasting anti-foreigner, anti-white propoganda all over the nation. (as are the rebels I believe)

The UN is is involved with the evacuation though.

 

[the number 42]

The French will always be cool, without even trying. For example, who gave us Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity? But it is taking anti-French feeling too far when an incident like David Copperfield making the Statue of Liberty dissappear is considered one of the great moments in popular American culture.

 

[vanesch]

Do you actually know anything about what is happening in the Ivory Coast??

Well, I think I do know something about it. The situation in I.C. strongly ressembles the pre-genocide situation in Ruanda, in that the guy in power wants to implement a kind of etnic cleansing, and that there are (of other ethnicities) rebels, mostly in the north of the country who want him out of there. In order to try to avoid the same butchery as in Ruanda, the french gouvernment (because the Ivory coast is an ancient colony) took the probably unfortunate step of trying to mediate between both parties, and an agreement was signed. I don't know of all the points in the agreement ; one of the points was that a gouvernment with people from both clans would be formed. In the mean time - I'm sorry but WITH UN approval and with approval of the union of african nations, the french would overlook a cease-fire between the rebellions and the gouvernment army.
I agree that they shouldn't have done that, they just should have let them butch each other up, because they are accused by both parties of taking part for the opposite camp, and anyway the president doesn't apply the signed agreement.
Anyway, what happened recently is that one of the bases of the French got bombed by the regular army and this killed 9 soldiers, and as a reaction, they destroyed the entire Air force which consists of 3 airplanes and 2 helicopters.

EDIT:

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unoci/

 

[vanesch]

I agree that they shouldn't have done that, they just should have let them butch each other up, because they are accused by both parties of taking part for the opposite camp, and anyway the president doesn't apply the signed agreement.

If I say the above with some cynical humour, it is because the Belgian army got into a very similar unconfortable situation in Ruanda a few years back. In fact, there weren't enough troups and many soldiers got killed there. It is not really a place you want to be in, between masses of two ethnicities who want to exterminate each other.

 

[Adrian Baker]

President Gbagbo (of the Ivory Coast) is interviewed in some depth in today's Sunday Telegraph newspaper. He doesn't see it in quite the way that you do!

I see that you don't answer any of my other points about the French Govt in your reply. I don't particularly want to argue about this with you, but I think that your comment that I am 'so ignorant' was totally uncalled for.

Whatever - I'll write no more about the French Govt. on this thread.

Vive la difference!

 

[vanesch]

President Gbagbo (of the Ivory Coast) is interviewed in some depth in today's Sunday Telegraph newspaper. He doesn't see it in quite the way that you do!

I see that you don't answer any of my other points about the French Govt in your reply. I don't particularly want to argue about this with you, but I think that your comment that I am 'so ignorant' was totally uncalled for.

Whatever - I'll write no more about the French Govt. on this thread.

Vive la difference!

I mainly meant the "ignorant" exclamation (for which I appologize) for the Ivory Coast thing. I said this already a few times here, I'm not french. I just live here, and I have to say I enjoy France more than my birth place (Brussels). Have a look at the UN link on the Ivory Coast ; that will be slightly less biased than what Gbagbo has to say. He's not the most honest person in the world!

What I wanted to indicate in my reply, is that what you accused the french people of, was just the actions of SOME individuals. You can find such things everywhere. I might have misunderstood you though, in that you were in fact talking about the french government.

I think you're right, after some seaching around, on the common agricultural pact: it is mainly the french that block this (mostly because farmers are a large part of the electorate of Chirac). I didn't realize this before.

 

[jimmy p]

OK mental note... never start a new thread again. What seems like mindless fun ends up a political discussion. All I can say is GO BRITISH!

 

[Smurf]

Vive La France!

 

[cepheid]

lol, sorry, I couldn't resist, the irony was just too good:

it's "VIVE la France!" (francais)



Viva Las Vegas! (espanol)

Really Smurf...let's be friends...

 

[Smurf]

I stand Corrected.