Solving a Puzzling Problem: No A Exists for Symmetric Matrix B

In summary, the conversation discusses the existence of a 2x2 symmetric matrix B that cannot be written as B = ATA. The participants suggest looking at the determinant, diagonal elements, and eigenvalues of ATA to determine if a matrix can be expressed in this form. It is noted that the eigenvalues of ATA are always non-negative, so if any eigenvalue of a matrix B is negative, it is impossible to write B in the form ATA. The matrix A = [1 10; 10 -1] is given as an example of a symmetric matrix that cannot be expressed in this form.
  • #1
BOS200011
2
0
Give an example of a 2X2 symmetric matrix B that cannot be written as B = ATA. Give an explanation as to why no such A exists for the matrix B you have given.


I know that the product ATA is a symmetric matrix, but how could there be no such A that exists for some matrix B?

I'm really stuck on this problem, and I would appreciate it if anyone could help. Thank you so much in advance.
 
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  • #2
What is the nature of the eigenvalues of ATA?
 
  • #3
If you write

[tex]A=\begin{pmatrix}a&b\\ c&d\end{pmatrix}[/tex]

and calculate ATA, it's immediately obvious that the result is not the most general form of a symmetric 2×2 matrix. No more calculations are necessary. Just stare at the result until you get it.
 
  • #4
1 2
2 3

I did out the product of ATA and came up with this matrix B that couldn't be written as such. Am I correct?
 
  • #5
You are correct about the above matrix. Try to figure out why (hint: determinants).
What do you think about the following matrix:
[tex]
A=\begin{pmatrix}1&10\\ 10&-1\end{pmatrix}
[/tex]
 
  • #6
Determinants are quite the right answer, either. Both the identity matrix and its additive inverse,

[tex]\bmatrix -1 & 0 \\ 0 & -1\endbmatrix[/tex]

have the same determinant. The identity matrix can obviously be written in the form ATA. Its additive inverse cannot.
 
  • #7
The OP's task was just to find an example of a symmetric matrix that can't be expressed as ATA, and noting that det ATA≥0 is certainly a good start. It explains why

1 2
2 3

is the kind of matrix we're looking for. My idea was to note that the elements on the diagonal of ATA are ≥0. That explains both

1 10
10 -1

and

-1 0
0 -1

Not sure if there are symmetric matrices with both the determinant and the diagonal elements ≥0 that can't be written as ATA. I'm too tired to think about that right now.
 
  • #8
You can get away with looking at the determinant and the diagonal elements for a 2x2. That trick won't work for anything larger than 2x2. What always works is to look at the eigenvalues, like I said in post #2. Given a real nxm matrix A, the eigenvalues of the matrix ATA are always non-negative. If any eigenvalue of some matrix B is negative then it is impossible to write B in the form ATA.
 

FAQ: Solving a Puzzling Problem: No A Exists for Symmetric Matrix B

How do you define a symmetric matrix?

A symmetric matrix is a matrix that is equal to its own transpose. This means that for a matrix A, AT = A. In other words, the elements of the matrix are symmetric about the main diagonal.

What is the significance of a symmetric matrix in problem-solving?

Symmetric matrices have many useful properties that make them important in problem-solving. For example, they have real eigenvalues, are diagonalizable, and have orthogonal eigenvectors. These properties make it easier to solve for unknown values in equations involving symmetric matrices.

Can a symmetric matrix have a zero diagonal?

Yes, a symmetric matrix can have a zero diagonal. This means that the elements of the matrix are only symmetric about the main diagonal, but not on the diagonal itself. In this case, the matrix is still considered symmetric.

How do you solve a puzzling problem involving a symmetric matrix with no solution for A?

If a symmetric matrix B has no solution for A, it means that there is no matrix A that satisfies the equation B = ATA. In this case, alternative methods such as using the singular value decomposition (SVD) can be used to solve for A. Alternatively, if the problem involves finding a solution to a system of equations involving the symmetric matrix, methods such as Gaussian elimination or LU decomposition can be used.

Can a symmetric matrix have complex eigenvalues?

Yes, a symmetric matrix can have complex eigenvalues. However, since symmetric matrices have real eigenvalues, this means that the complex eigenvalues must come in conjugate pairs. This is because the characteristic polynomial of a symmetric matrix has real coefficients, which results in complex roots occurring in conjugate pairs.

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