Solving the Riddle of Sorts: Who Signed the Peace Agreement First?

  • Thread starter Tom McCurdy
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In summary, the conversation discusses the use of special relativity to solve a problem in two separate scenarios involving peace agreements. In both cases, the leaders of the countries must sign the agreement at the same time, so they utilize a light source to ensure equal timing. However, when the second scenario is observed from an outside frame of reference, it appears that the signing occurs at different times. The question of who is correct is raised, but it is concluded that everyone is correct in their own frame of reference according to the principles of special relativity.
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Tom McCurdy
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There is fierce fighting between two countries, that we will be referred to as Country Bob, and Country Joe. To solve the problem the UN gets the leaders of Bob and Joe decide to sign a peace agreement to end the violence, the problem is that neither leader wishes to sign it first. To solve the problem they put the two leaders in a room across from each other equal distant to a light source at a long table. They decided that the peace agreement signature will occur when the light reaches each leader. Since light travels at the same velocity it reaches the leaders at the same time, and the agreement is signed and both countries are happy as there is peace between the two countries.

Later two new countries, Left and Right are fighting. The US is trying to get a peace agreement signed to end the fighting, however they have the same problem as the first two countries, with the leaders of both countries having to sign the treaty at the same time. To solve the problem the leaders meet on a train, and again the same thing is set up. The two leaders sit on opposite ends of a table on the train, one facing the front of the train (F-Leader), the other facing the back of train(B-Leader). They set up the light in the middle and turn it on, and they both sign it when the light hits them. They two leaders and especially the US (finally doing something sucessful in foreign relations in the Bush admin) are quite pleased until they find out the fighting started again. It turns out to the observers outside of the train, they "saw" the F-leader sign the document just before the b-leader because the light had to travel a smaller distance even though it is at the same speed. However the people on the train maintain that the documents were signed at the exact same time.

Who is correct?
Why?

This is meant to be a simple excerise to help explain SR, it was adapted from Brian Greene's The Elegant Universe.
 
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  • #2
Tom McCurdy said:
Who is correct?
Why?
Everyone is correct. Why? SR.

Nice riddle - variation of Einstein's thought experiment.
 
  • #3
I disagree. No-one is correct. Why? SR.

:smile:
 
  • #4
OneEye said:
I disagree. No-one is correct. Why? SR.

:smile:
Fair enough.
 
  • #5
I disagree with that statement. Special relativity says that all frames of reference of equally valid, not equally invalid. Everyone is correct about how they view the nature of an event in their own frame of reference. If everyone was incorrect it would mean that observations would be pointless since we can never observe the true nature of reality. If that was the case, we would know nothing about the Universe and special relativity would be useless as it doesn't apply to Universe as it is. Saying that everyone is wrong complete nullifies science. It's much more productive to say everyone is right in their own specific reference frame.
 

Related to Solving the Riddle of Sorts: Who Signed the Peace Agreement First?

1. Who were the primary parties involved in the peace agreement?

The primary parties involved in the peace agreement were the countries or groups that were in conflict with each other. This could include neighboring countries, rebel groups, or political factions within a country.

2. Why is it important to determine who signed the peace agreement first?

Determining who signed the peace agreement first can provide insight into the power dynamics and motivations behind the agreement. It can also help establish the legitimacy of the agreement and any subsequent actions or agreements.

3. What factors can make it difficult to determine who signed the peace agreement first?

There are many factors that can make it difficult to determine who signed the peace agreement first. These could include conflicting historical accounts, language barriers, missing or incomplete documentation, and political biases.

4. How can scientific methods be used to solve this riddle?

Scientific methods such as historical research, document analysis, and forensic linguistics can be used to gather evidence and analyze data in order to determine who signed the peace agreement first. These methods can help to provide an objective and evidence-based conclusion.

5. What are the potential implications of solving this riddle?

Solving the riddle of who signed the peace agreement first can have important implications for understanding historical events, resolving conflicts, and establishing accountability. It can also help to inform future peace negotiations and agreements.

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