Someone stole an argon cylinder today

[ProfuselyQuarky]

It is my fault. The cage/cabinet where all the cylinders are stored on the side of the building all have dial locks and I know it sounds really bad but my success rate with dial locks is close to zero. I was trying to swap out the 3/4 full argon cylinder for nitrogen but couldn't unlock it so I left the cylinder by the cage to ask someone to open it for me. When I walked back out, it was gone.

I just texted my PI to let him know and I'm not sure what his reaction is going to be. In my defense (I don't really have one), who goes around stealing gas cylinders.

Edit: I was gone for like five minutes

 

[Astronuc]

Any security cameras nearby?

Who would have access to that area? I can't imagine someone casually walking off with a gas cylinder.

 

[ProfuselyQuarky]

Any security cameras nearby?

Who would have access to that area? I can't imagine someone casually walking off with a gas cylinder.

It is definitely in a tucked-away location but there is nothing stopping a random passerby on campus from wandering in there

I agree, unless someone was watching and suffers from severe kleptomania, the idea of taking something so heavy and large like that spontaneously is insane. There are probably cameras.

 

[Astronuc]

I agree, unless someone was watching and suffers from severe kleptomania, the idea of taking something so heavy and large like that spontaneously is insane. There are probably cameras.

Check with campus security (give them an estimate of the time), and whoever is responsible for the building or space. People who are not enrolled or employed by the university should not be freely wandering into buildings. The department responsible for the space needs to place security cameras in hallways, or doors to storage areas need to be locked.

 

[Twigg]

If you see anyone welding and laying down some really ugly bead, that's your guy!

Any chance someone in your building took it because it was in the way, or they thought it was a hazard and they're being petty, or because they thought you forgot about it? Who's responsible for the gas storage area? Someone must've been given responsibility, making sure the gas storage was up to code and what'not.

 

[rbelli1]

I left the cylinder by the cage

Did you leave it unattended in such a way as it could tip over?

BoB

 

[DaveE]

OK, I know this sounds obvious, but... Did you see if someone put in in the cage for you. I might do that if I was opening the cage for my cylinders. After all it doesn't belong outside.

 

[Vanadium 50]

The cylinders! They...argon. (Or maybe )

 

[Twigg]

When you find who's responsible for the cylinders, ask them if you/they can switch out the lock. You're obviously a smart person, if you're having trouble with the lock then other people are too. If the lock is causing you and others to leave the cylinders unattended, then the lock is a safety problem. They may tease you about being from a younger generation, but they'll do it (or, at least, it's their job to do it).

 

[berkeman]

When you find who's responsible for the cylinders, ask them if you/they can switch out the lock. You're obviously a smart person, if you're having trouble with the lock then other people are too. If the lock is causing you and others to leave the cylinders unattended, then the lock is a safety problem.

Cheap dial padlocks are obnoxious, and belong in locker rooms, not exposed to the elements. Instead, suggest that they change to this type of combination padlock, which I've used outdoors on my motorcycle trailers for years. The combination can be set to whatever you want, and shared among the folks who need to access the cage.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Master-Lock-MLK175D-Resettable-Combination-Lock-1-Each-Brass/21802081

 

[256bits]

Check with campus security (give them an estimate of the time), and whoever is responsible for the building or space. People who are not enrolled or employed by the university should not be freely wandering into buildings. The department responsible for the space needs to place security cameras in hallways, or doors to storage areas need to be locked.

And, check with campus security about an unattended tank not stored properly.
They may already have a file on this situation, in which case
You probably know how to handle the tank, but assume someone else not knowledgeable would consider it as the perfect item it to prop a door open.

You really should have taken the cylinder back with you from where it came.
There is a reason that these things are classified as dangerous goods - they can hurt someone.
As always safety for others first!

 

[Keith_McClary]

this type of combination padlock

See first minute of:

 

[phyzguy]

Did you leave it unattended in such a way as it could tip over?

BoB

I have the same question. If the cylinder was not secured safely, it may have been taken by your department's safety people. An unsecured gas cylinder can be very dangerous. If it tips over and the valve breaks off, it becomes a rocket which can go through walls and kill people.

 

[Wrichik Basu]

If security at the campus gate is tight, that cylinder should still be within the walls of the institution. There should be surveillance cameras somewhere, even if not directly in front of the cylinder storage area. Somebody can't hide the cylinder under their shirt, so somebody else might have seen that person walking with a cylinder. If you have informed the security, they should already be checking the cameras to figure out where the thing went.

 

[Keith_McClary]

I'd be interested to know how big and heavy it is and and what is its $ value?

 

[DaveE]

I have the same question. If the cylinder was not secured safely, it may have been taken by your department's safety people. An unsecured gas cylinder can be very dangerous. If it tips over and the valve breaks off, it becomes a rocket which can go through walls and kill people.

If I was the lab safety guy, I would probably take that cylinder with the hope that whoever left it would somehow come asking about it. Then I could understand and fix the problem. Maybe that guy needs more training, maybe I need to fix the lock. Without a discussion of why, safety isn't improved as much as it could be. My other choices would be to fix it or pretend I didn't see it, which doesn't make it less likely to recur; or to search the whole building and ask everyone if that was their cylinder, which is really a lot of work.

 

[ProfuselyQuarky]

Did you leave it unattended in such a way as it could tip over?

I left it tilted one of these things, which was still by cage, by the way:

Did you see if someone put in in the cage for you

We did actually and it's not there :(

I called campus security and they said they'll look through surveillance cameras and get back to me today. But the few people I've spoken to are confident that it's probably still around campus. Not sure if it was taken due to the visible negligence or not but someone internally stole a chromatography column a few months ago and they found out who did it, so I'm sure they can find the cylinder either way.

 

[ProfuselyQuarky]

You really should have taken the cylinder back with you from where it came.
There is a reason that these things are classified as dangerous goods - they can hurt someone.
As always safety for others first!

I know I should have. And it feels so bad, I truly wasn't thinking of it being a serious safety hazard. I could have just rolled it back into the building since the guy I went to talk to is on the first floor. I will for sure do that next time.

Also, the lock that berkeman shared actually is the lock that the cages have. I'm going to buy one and practice at home with it. My first day here, I made a fool of myself with having a bad time with a key so as much as I'd like to deflect, it's probably neither the lock nor the safety officer's fault.

 

[f95toli]

Argon cylinders are not very expensive, but having one go missing on a campus sounds like a health and safety nightmare.
One can only hope that it hasn't been stolen by some numbnut who thinks that Argon can be used in the same ways as helium.
Hopefully no one will try to inhale it directly from the cylinder (which people unfortunately do try with He cylinders)

Good luck!

 

[gmax137]

I left it tilted one of these things, which was still by cage, by the way:

Do you mean, the hand truck was still there but your cylinder was gone? That's weird. A full-size cylinder? Moving those around w/o the hand truck or cart takes practice. So whoever made off with it wasn't just a casual passer-by.

 

[DaveC426913]

Did you leave it unattended in such a way as it could tip over?

...and then roll far, far away?

Have you done a perimeter sweep out to, say 500 yards? (1000 if near downhill slopes)

 

[ergospherical]

In my defense (I don't really have one), who goes around stealing gas cylinders.

Similar vibes...

 

[rbelli1]

I left it tilted one of these things, which was still by cage, by the way:

Were the chains secure? If not it leads to Dave's question:

Have you done a perimeter sweep

Someone may have seen the tipped cart and set it back upright.

BoB

 

[ProfuselyQuarky]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, security had footage and an individual from another lab/department took it. Reasoning is undisclosed and I don’t know what the consequences will be. I guess timing was just too perfect and they had their own hand truck. Also based on the time stamps I was apparently gone longer than the 5 mins I thought it was (11 mins). Won’t ever do that again.

I’m just glad it was at least taken by someone who knew what they were doing because if something bad happened (beyond stolen property lol) I don’t what I’d do with myself.

 

[JT Smith]

It sounds like it wasn't theft.

It was your fault as you said. But an understandable slip up. Of course losing a cylinder would be a financial loss. But would it pose much of a threat to someone who might steal it? I wouldn't mind having some argon. Would it be dangerous if I had your cylinder?

 

[ProfuselyQuarky]

It sounds like it wasn't theft.

It was your fault as you said. But an understandable slip up. Of course losing a cylinder would be a financial loss. But would it pose much of a threat to someone who might steal it? I wouldn't mind having some argon. Would it be dangerous if I had your cylinder?

Uh I think the implication was that the person wanted the argon so they took it. So isn’t that theft lol.

And not dangerous for someone who knows how to use it, but dangerous if the person didn’t (as far as handling it and working the valves goes) , as others said.

 

[BillTre]

Argon is heavier then air and can ause suffication in some situations (where it might pool) if a lot is released. It can also be difficult to get out of your lungs if you are right side up.

 

[DaveE]

It can also be difficult to get out of your lungs if you are right side up.

This never occurred to me; very interesting. But is it really a problem. Ar is less dense than CO₂, but I guess that the CO₂ mixes well enough that the residual volume of our lungs doesn't fill up with it. Does it? Is this really a thing?

 

[Twigg]

@ProfuselyQuarky Good job tracking it down, and good to know it all ended safely! That is one mistake you won't make again!

There is a story I heard somewhere. A dude blew up a turbomolecular vacuum pump, turbines just went up like grenades. No one hurt, but 50,000 dollars of equipment turned into scrap metal. Guy tells his boss he's sorry, and he knows he'll be fired. Boss says, "why would I fire you? I just paid fifty grand to train you."

It's true that you want to minimize accidents, but it's also true that accidents tend make you honest. I could tell you the time I tried to touch a terminal bar at a kilovolt (my first time working with high voltage, had someone looking over my shoulder who stopped me). We do dumb stuff sometimes, it's in our nature. That's why we have guide-rails, like easier locks or enclosures for high voltage connections. For your case, maybe get one of those locks and practice with it at home, or see if you can get a copy of the key if you use a lot of gas. Good luck!

 

[DaveE]

why would I fire you? I just paid fifty grand to train you.

Yes. This! People that don't work in an R&D lab don't understand that we learn from our mistakes. The lab needs to be set up (training, facilities, etc.) so that mistakes aren't likely to cost too much. But, go to any lab and ask the old engineers and technicians how they learned not to do the dumb stuff. They probably either did it themselves or saw it done.

Reminds me of that cliché "experience is what you get when you don't get what you want."

 

[ProfuselyQuarky]

Reassuring message, for sure. thanks twigg :)

(I’m chronically clumsy and I just had to pick a work environment that is as fragile as it is expensive lol. Self-awareness is a good step towards safety though. Currently have a lock in hand)

 

[Twigg]

I’m chronically clumsy and I just had to pick a work environment that is as fragile as it is expensive lol

You're in great company here

Ever start up a pulsed YAG laser (~10J in ~10ns) without the water cooling? Contrary to myth, YAG crystals do not have a distinct aroma when they burn. It's the rubber hoses for the cooling water that smell, right before they burst from heat strain and flood the laser enclosure (also home to high voltage, sensitive flash lamps, and enough light to cook a whole chicken in milliseconds). Good times!

There was a machinist who told me once that the force required to break a tap off in a part goes inversely proportional to the cost of the part. I think he was on to something

 

[256bits]

Currently have a lock in hand

The other guy probably thought -" what luck , I don't have to try opening that stupid lock."
You probably did him a favour - in return, he could have at least left a note to save you the anxiety.

All's well that ends well.
This was a great posting - I really enjoyed the great mystery.
Agatha Christie would be envious.
And as it turns out it wasn't the butler after all!

 

[rsk]

I'm glad the story has a relatively happy ending! I was imagining the kind of angst, panic and guilt I would be suffering if this had been me. Didn't post at the time because I thought that probably wasn't what you needed to hear at the time.

Your experience has highlighted an issue with the lock that could have had led to a different lapse with far more serious consequences so, as it is, you've maybe even done them a favour.

 

[Ibix]

"why would I fire you? I just paid fifty grand to train you."

Similar story - an office mate came in practically in tears because he'd flooded the lab. It was an optics experiment in a dark room with flowing water, and a pipe had slipped off a tap and in the darkness he hadn't noticed for a while. We checked with him that he'd turned all the taps off and calmed him down as best we could. He went off to see his prof, who apparently more or less laughed it off. He'd been a laser physicist in the 80s when dye lasers were cutting edge and was completely used to being up to his elbows in mildly carcinogenic dye because good physicists aren't always good plumbers...