Spacetime: Real or Not? LIGO Lab Explores Ripples

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In summary, scientists have discovered spacetime ripples and distortions through experiments and tests that confirm the concepts of space and time as real. The detection of gravitational waves at the LIGO lab also supports the existence of spacetime. The concept of a "fabric" is used to visualize these distortions, but it is not a physical fabric. The GPS system uses these concepts to accurately function. The idea of a fabric is a simplistic visualization for the general public, and does not discredit the validity of the discoveries made.
  • #1
mr1batman
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how does scientists discover the spacetime ripples and this things while the spacetime is not a real fabric
is this all returns to the LIGO lab and the machine that was built there ?
 
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  • #2
mr1batman said:
how does scientists discover the spacetime ripples and this things while the spacetime is not a real fabric
is this all returns to the LIGO lab and the machine that was built there ?
If you can provide an operational definition of "real", we can talk. Otherwise, this is just philosophy.
 
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  • #3
Space-time describes our measurement of reality. If you agree that space and time are real, then that is enough to say that space-time is real. The trade-offs between space and time in SR has passed several tests and experiments over many decades. Likewise for the distortions of space-time due to mass in GR. In fact, the GPS system must use SR and GR results to keep it accurate. Without those adjustments, GPS goes bad quickly.

The detection of gravitational ripples of space-time are very recent. The latest detection was matched exactly by the detection of light from the same event at the correct time.
 
  • #4
mr1batman said:
how does scientists discover the spacetime ripples and this things while the spacetime is not a real fabric
is this all returns to the LIGO lab and the machine that was built there ?

Go back a bit. Are you saying that the fact that it took me 30 minutes to travel 25 miles into the city yesterday is "not real"?

Zz.
 
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FactChecker said:
Space-time describes our measurement of reality. If you agree that space and time are real, then that is enough to say that space-time is real. The trade-offs between space and time in SR has passed several tests and experiments over many decades. Likewise for the distortions of space-time due to mass in GR. In fact, the GPS system must use SR and GR results to keep it accurate. Without those adjustments, GPS goes bad quickly.

The detection of gravitational ripples of space-time are very recent. The latest detection was matched exactly by the detection of light from the same event at the correct time.
ZapperZ said:
Go back a bit. Are you saying that the fact that it took me 30 minutes to travel 25 miles into the city yesterday is "not real"?

Zz.
i mean the spacetime fabric it not something real right it is just to make us understand the GR
 
  • #6
mr1batman said:
i mean the spacetime fabric it not something real right it is just to make us understand the GR
Again, what do you mean by "real"? We can measure properties of something that we refer to as "space time". That's about as real as anything ever gets in science.

If you are referring to some stretchy fabric (the rubber sheet analogy) that has dimples where masses press down into it then no, that's not real.
 
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It measures and explains real things. Like F = M*A. But it is true that gravity is a distortion of space-time, where the distortion travels through the universe like a wave. There is no physical "fabric". You may be using it to visualize GR, but that is not how it really works. In fact, just the opposite -- GR is the way to understand and visualize the distortions of space-time.
 
  • #8
mr1batman said:
i mean the spacetime fabric it not something real right it is just to make us understand the GR

Let's get this VERY clear. What I described is an actual "spacetime", which is part of what is being described by GR. Spacetime "fabric" is a simplistic, bastardization, stupid visualization that we try to give the general public.

So how did you somehow come up with the idea that since this visualization is not accurate, that we could not discover the gravitational waves detected by LIGO? Do you think Einstein's GR came about because he STARTED with the fabric picture in mind? Or do you think that GR is fundamentally built upon such a silly picture in the first place?

Zz.
 
  • #9
FactChecker said:
...the GPS system must use...
Needs a PIN number, too... I suppose ?
 
  • #10
Is a magnetic field real? I mean, we can't see it or touch it. The fact is, as stated above, it is as real as anything else. We have a very good mathematical model of it and we can measure the accuracy of the way that math describes the magnetic field to any arbitrary degree of accuracy. So for example, just because we can see the visible light reflected by the moon, and we can't see the infrared light, the visible light isn't any more real than the infrared light. Perhaps it's the word "fabric" in the phrase space time fabric that disturbs you. The word fabric is really not a scientific term. It's just a way to visualize an invisible gradient of gravitational curvature, like a fabric distorted by a weight resting on it. If the word causes confusion, then don't use it. Use the model of GR that predicts a curvature of the invisible field of space time at every infinitesimally small point in space, all adding up to a larger curvature over a larger area of space. Does that answer your question?
 
  • #11
ZapperZ said:
Let's get this VERY clear... Spacetime "fabric" is a simplistic, bastardization, stupid visualization that we try to give the general public.
That was such an authoritative disquisition... . :oldeyes:

However, that fact does not created in me a sense of obligation...
 
  • #12
There are a great many ways to objectively measure and study the passage of time, with varying degrees of accuracy and repeatability. They should be used in this discussion. There is no need to bring psychology into it at this point.
 
  • #13
The original question has been answered but unfortunately this thread started on shaky grounds and has since meandered off topic and into personal theories and philosophy (as the half-dozen deleted posts attest to).

Thread locked.
 

FAQ: Spacetime: Real or Not? LIGO Lab Explores Ripples

1. Is spacetime a real concept or just a theoretical construct?

Spacetime is a fundamental concept in physics and is considered to be a real physical entity. It is the fabric of the universe that combines the three dimensions of space with the dimension of time.

2. How does the LIGO Lab detect ripples in spacetime?

The LIGO Lab uses a technique called interferometry, which involves splitting a laser beam and sending it down two perpendicular arms. When a ripple in spacetime, also known as a gravitational wave, passes through the detector, it causes a small displacement in the length of the arms, which can be measured and detected by the instrument.

3. Can ripples in spacetime be observed directly?

No, ripples in spacetime cannot be observed directly. They are incredibly small and can only be detected using extremely sensitive instruments like those at the LIGO Lab.

4. What is the significance of detecting gravitational waves?

Detecting gravitational waves provides evidence for the existence of black holes and other massive objects predicted by Einstein's theory of general relativity. It also opens up a new way of studying the universe and understanding its origins.

5. How does the detection of gravitational waves impact our understanding of spacetime?

The detection of gravitational waves confirms that spacetime is a dynamic entity that can be distorted and stretched by massive objects. It also supports the theory of general relativity and provides a new tool for studying the properties of spacetime and the universe.

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