Struggling to Find a Job with a BS in Physics: Any Advice?

[KrevinL]

I've been out of school for almost a year now, (graduated May 2010) and I have still have not found a job. I feel like I've looked just about everywhere. I've had maybe 4 or 5 interviews, haven't gotten any offers. I have a Bachelor's in Engineering Physics from Illinois. I specialized in Computational Physics, but that just means I took some intro CS classes learning Java, C++, MATLAB, and one class using OpenGL to do graphics. I had good grades, but didn't do any research or anything like that, so I don't have anything spectacular on my resume.

At this point I'm looking for any job that I can use/enhance my science or computer skills or something. I'm only looking to stay in Illinois, around the Chicago area, which I know severely restricts my opportunities, but I can't leave the area. So basically, if anyone could help me out with any search advice, company names, jobs that would suit me, anything of this sort, I would appreciate it. I'm looking for more specific advice, not like "figure out what you want to do" or "go to grad school", I already have my mom to tell me stuff like that. So anyone who has pretty much the same background as me and found a job, someone who knows what companies would hire me and to do what, or someone who has hired/wants to hire someone like me, I'd love to hear from you before I go crazy.

 

[fss]

What kind of positions have you been interviewing for? You might consider getting some sort of temporary job while you search.

 

[Iforgot]

I was in your position after I graduated with a BS, and seven years later with PhD in physics. I barely managed to land a job. If I knew seven years ago, what I know now, I would've

1) Applied to a masters program in CS or EE where I knew companies are recruiting. The prestige of the school makes no difference when it comes to landing most jobs. Finding which companies are recruiting at which schools takes serious time for research.

2) In the meantime, (if there's a nearby university) I would've have volunteered doing "research" for a research group in a subject I find interesting/a subject that I knew employers need.

3) Gone to get a degree in business so I would know how to work for myself, and wouldn't need the man to hire me.

Some other stuff it sounds like you might find useful.

When you offer to volunteer, don't say "b/c I can't find a job". Say some bs like "I'm looking to explore my opportunities", "I've always found yadayadayada very interesting, and I'm looking to get some hands on experience in the field". The prof. should get a hint as to what your situation really is, and will appreciate your classy'ness by not looking desperate.

When you write your resume/cover letter for the job, you can say something like "I spent x months working in X's lab implementing X's nifty algorithm that you need to make money".

While you're volunteering/ "working", it looks good on the resume. It doesn't look like you are unemployed, and since you're doing computational stuff, you don't even need to work from the lab.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Your mother is right. If you haven't yet figured out what you want to do, you need to do so right away. A bunch of strangers on the internet can't help you.

What have you been doing in the last ten months? Working at a job you don't see a future in? Unemployed?

 

[KrevinL]

I've interviewed for a Nuclear Equipment Operator job which I ended up giving a back first impression because I was late after I followed incorrect directions to the interview. I also interviewed for a Support Engineer job for a company that made PDF software and a similar position for a vehicle design software company. I don't think I had the right amount of programming knowledge that was required for those. One more interview was for like a SAP consultant kind of role, which I never heard back from.

I've been searching for like a temp lab job, but most of the lab type jobs around Chicago are bio/chemistry lab jobs and very few physics related labs.

About volunteering my services to professors, don't grad students usually do all that stuff? I feel like I'd have trouble finding a professor to let someone, who isn't enrolled in their University and never has been, work with them. @Iforgot: What type of job did you get after you got your Bachelor's? I'm just wondering so I could maybe get some new ideas.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Let's try again. What have you been doing the last ten months? This will help us see if there is a way to adapt what you've done for another position.

 

[KrevinL]

I've been applying to jobs for the last 10 months. I've done some part-time work but nothing at all related to physics or any other science. So most of my time is going towards looking for my first real job.

 

[Vanadium 50]

10 months is 1600 hours, assuming a 40 hour week. If you have 4 or 5 interviews, that means its taking you 320-400 hours of angling for an interview to get one. Is that the case? Or are you spending less than that looking for work? If the latter, your first course of action is to realize that until you find a job, finding a job is your full time job.

 

[KrevinL]

While I appreciate you taking time to try to help me out and give me some advice, this is exactly the type of advice I requested not to receive. I have heard all of the cliches about job searching and I assure you I am not being lazy and applying to 10 jobs and freaking out that I haven't had an interview for any of them. I've been applying for jobs this entire time, sending my resume to hundreds of places.

I really posted on here to hear about people that were in similar situations, so they could share their experiences and what kinds of jobs they ended up getting after they got a Bachelor's in Physics.

 

[Iforgot]

Vanadium:

It sounds like your tearing into the poor kid. And seriously? Did you really say his mom is right? It sounds like the kid just wants a job that pays. Preferably one that is intellectually challenging, but I think he realizes he doesn't have the luxury to discriminate.

KrevinL:

Job hunting sucks. Majorly. You probably went into physics cause you thought all sorts of noble bs, and never learned how to sell yourself. Key words "sell yourself". This is really tough. It's so easy to do it wrong. I'm no pro either, but I found it helps to have some (roughly 3) "talking points" for an interview. Politicians do it all the time during debates. It's manipulative but that's the world for you.

(in fact, I explicitly remember Hilary Clinton use a line from the movie "Thank you for smoking", when she was running for primaries.)

I blew my first 4 interviews big time. It takes practice. Try to anticipate their questions, and come up with answers for them. They will ask you if you have questions. This is also important. The answers they want to hear are posted online. stuff like "What accomplishment would qualify as stellar performance". Run your thoughts past a good friend who you know has good people skills.

Also, HR people are a bunch of retarded gibbons. Just smile, and tell them what they want to hear. I'm assuming you have moral qualms about doing this. Get over them.

I got a job by the skin of my teeth, so unfortunately, I don't have much advice other than what I already told you. I sent out hundreds of tailored resumes over the course of 8 months. Every day, 12 hours a day. The advice I gave above came from my discussions with others and my own experiences.

If I had to sum it up in one word, "networking". However you can. If it means going back to school or volunteering, so be it.

I needle v50 in the link below. And also give some other career advice.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=483886

 

[Femme_physics]

I've interviewed for a Nuclear Equipment Operator job which I ended up giving a back first impression because I was late after I followed incorrect directions to the interview

Happened to me this week. The guy waited for an hour because I was at the right street's name, but in the wrong city. We were on the phone a bunch of time, and he must've thought I was retarded for being so geographically disoriented. I had to catch a cab to get to him before he left. Luckily I did, and had a fine interview.

You could get (temporarily?) into teaching. There are places that look for people just like you, without a teaching certificate but with good knowledge in engineering/physics/math/computers to teach some young kids in special educational programs. If you have patience and the right attitude, just exhibit it and you're golden. So, that's another field where your knowledge plays an important role. Definitely a plus on your resume as well for the future as well.

 

[lisab]

While I appreciate you taking time to try to help me out and give me some advice, this is exactly the type of advice I requested not to receive. I have heard all of the cliches about job searching and I assure you I am not being lazy and applying to 10 jobs and freaking out that I haven't had an interview for any of them. I've been applying for jobs this entire time, sending my resume to hundreds of places.

I really posted on here to hear about people that were in similar situations, so they could share their experiences and what kinds of jobs they ended up getting after they got a Bachelor's in Physics.

I got my first "real" job through a temp agency. Temp jobs are usually entry-level, and a lot of companies use them to "test drive" applicants. If you choose to go this route, look for an agency that specializes in technical/engineering placements.

Good luck!

 

[Stephen Tashi]

KrevinL,

Did you fill out the paperwork to apply for government jobs?

If you do, read the fine print about qualifying for particular job categories. They usually require less background than you think, especially when it comes to the courses you have taken in a given field. For example, you might qualify as a mathematician or statistician even though you only took a few courses in those subjects.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

If you are intersted in automation and robotics, I would suggest giving these folks a try. You can also get into the field at the distribution level [call industrial electric wholesalers]. Get a foot in the door and you can go the engineering route like I did, or go for engineering sales. Their reps make about $100K a year. You won't start at that level of course, but with time it can pay very well.
http://www.meau.com/eprise/main/sites/public/ABOUT_US/-Contact_us

I have a BS in physics and it led to a great career for me. I actually started with Mitsubishi in Oregon; their main office is just outside of Chicago.

 

[KrevinL]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far everyone!

I've tried a few temp agencies, but find that I've been getting misled about what the types of positions are. However I'll still look into better temp agencies for leads.

I have applied to jobs through USAjobs.gov. One in particular, I received an email saying I made it to the second stage of recruiting and should hear back by some time...but never did.

Thanks for the lead Ivan, it sounds like a good place to look. I'll definitely research this area even more.

Thanks again everyone, I'm still applying to places so any other info of this sort is greatly appreciated.

 

[Stephen Tashi]

KrevinL,

The government has to follow certain procedures in considering job applicants. You can force them to follow their own rules if you get after them. Perhaps you'd do better to apply on real paper. It's harder for them to lose.

Have you checked your credit scores?, thought about anything bad in your background that employers may be looking up? Maybe you have the same name as wanted fugitive. Are you on the no-fly list?

 

[elkement]

Hi KrevinL,

many physicists that work in the IT industry are not really developers, but rather IT infrastructure architects. Examples: building and planning distributed systems, security engineering or troubleshooting. Would you be probably also interested in that?
Physicists do extremely well in these jobs: you are sort of modelling large systems - putting in requirements, describing it formally and putting out a description / plan - I always felt this is like modelling a system in differential equations.

My impression is that it is easier to find such jobs than being hired as a developer. I think there are high because IT infrastructure jobs always have a nasty aspect: Nobody recognizes what you are doing unless something breaks (The network is down, 10.000 people are not able to work.) But if you are willing to live with that aspect you could specialize in a niche that makes you a sought after resource on the job market. I am speaking from experience.

In order to launch a career in IT infrastructure one option is to get into a trainee programme offered by corporations like Microsoft and CISCO. Thes programmes typically to not require you to have any know-how in advance related to specific technologies.

If you might be interested in moving a bit farther away from 'technical details' probably also a trainee position at a large business consulting company would be an option.

Another option is to jump into the cold water and work as a freelance 'computer support engineer' for small enterprises and work you way up.

I used both approaches after having finished my PhD - first working as a freelance computer consultant and later spealized on specific technologies working as a consultant for a large IT company. My PhD did not all prepare me for that with respect to the technical details - I was learning new things on the job.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Apparently you didn't like my advice. You'll probably like this even less.

Unpleasant Fact #1: What you are doing isn't working. If you want a different outcome, you need to do something differently. If the cross-section is low, you have to increase the flux.

How many people do you think a place interviews per position. Half a dozen? A dozen? So there are perhaps 6-12 more jobs than interviews, so you need to expect a mean of 6-12 interviews before your first offer. At a rate of one interview every 8 weeks, this can take a long time.

Unpleasant Fact #2: "Nothing happens until something is sold". Salesmanship is important whether you are a salesman or not. You might sell soap, you might sell cars, or in the case of scientists, you are usually selling ideas. To get hired, fundamentally you need to sell someone on the idea that he would rather have you working for him than to keep your salary in his pocket.

Unpleasant Fact #3: Nobody makes a hiring decision based on how they can help you meet your goals. They make it based on how you can help them meet their goals.

Which leads us to Unpleasant Fact #4: It is much, much easier to find a job if you already have one. It demonstrates to a potential employer that you can sell someone on an idea, it gives the applicant a list of specifics on where he has helped his present employer and it gives the applicant an idea of the direction he would like to go. "While I enjoy working as a software developer, I think I would rather move in the direction of infrastructure support because of X, Y and Z. Which is why I am applying for this position."

 

[Femme_physics]

Which leads us to Unpleasant Fact #4: It is much, much easier to find a job if you already have one. It demonstrates to a potential employer that you can sell someone on an idea, it gives the applicant a list of specifics on where he has helped his present employer and it gives the applicant an idea of the direction he would like to go. "While I enjoy working as a software developer, I think I would rather move in the direction of infrastructure support because of X, Y and Z. Which is why I am applying for this position."

True, but the interviewer might get the impression you're jumping from job to job and that you'll be wanting to climb up the ladder and leave him soon after you earn some cash and pad up your resume a bit. Definitely a good idea to assure the interviewer you're there for the long run.

 

[Ryker]

True, but the interviewer might get the impression you're jumping from job to job and that you'll be wanting to climb up the ladder and leave him soon after you earn some cash and pad up your resume a bit. Definitely a good idea to assure the interviewer you're there for the long run.

There is no reason an interviewer would get to that idea any sooner than when you're applying for your first job.

 

[Stephen Tashi]

There is a saying: "Pull beats push" - not true for physical forces but true for social ones. Many jobs aren't advertised formally and there is no formal selection and interview process for them. They are filled by hiring a person whom the hirer heard about through a friend, or a friend-of-a-friend, or a barber who happened to know another guy who ... etc. Use all your social contacts to ferret out possible jobs, even people you don't know well.