Struggling to Focus with New Telescope? Here Are Some Tips!

[Sheneron]

...now my screw aren't even tilting the mirror. I can't figure out at all how to get this collimated. I have been trying basically all night. So frustrating... another night lost.

 

[Redbelly98]

Since none of us are there to see with our own eyes what is going on, you might try finding an amateur astronomy club in your area. There are many of them scattered throughout the U.S., you can probably find the closest one with a google search.

Most clubs hold monthly meetings, and have members that are more than willing to help out somebody with their first telescope. Try bringing your scope to the next meeting, leaving it in the car at first. Then ask around with the people you meet there if anyone could help aligning it after the meeting's over.

p.s. Or, you may find that trying this in daytime when you're less tired works better too

 

[Sheneron]

I guess it would be best to get people to help me. I have been doing it during the daytime, still no luck. I understand the whole collimation process, I understand everything I need to do and what I am seeing when I look through the collimation eyepiece, but I can't get anything to move. I can't get the mirror to tilt (anymore), and I can't get the secondary to move towards or away from the primary.

 

[Sheneron]

At this point, I am just hoping I didn't mess anything up. Because like I said none of the screws are moving anything anymore. Luckily I have quite a warranty on the scope, but that is such a hassle. Next break from school I will have to call the company to see if I can get it working again.

I was debating whether to try to get it perfectly collimated and adjust the secondary mirror and now I wish I hadn't. Hopefully I will be able to find someone that can help me.

Thanks for the help so far.

 

[Waveform]

You don’t want the secondary mirror moving latterly to the primary mirror. If any adjustment are made in the secondary it will only be angular (tilt) to the primary.
If you are having problems with the then go back to the laser. Some times it is easier to alight the two optical axes when you can see the results.

Sight the scope on a distant object, preferably a star and leave the focuser at that point.
Insert the laser in the eyepiece, adjust the tilt of the secondary, until the beam is centered on the primary mirror, then adjust the primary to return the beam to the center of the secondary.
This will put you quite close to collimated At least enough for good viewing.

Try not to get frustrated. Under the very best circumstance the process can take 20 minutes to several hours depending on the initial alignment of the scope.

Just to quickly interject. This is no help to you of course, however several years ago I had a 8 inch Celestron that I almost pulled my hair out trying to collimate.
In the end I found out the spider was defective and prevented a good collimation.
This is probably not the case here. I am under the impression Orion produces good scopes.

I really feel sorry now that I mentioned collimation. It really should not have caused this much of a problem.
However, at times it can be a pain.

 

[montoyas7940]

In the end I found out the spider was defective and prevented a good collimation.
This is probably not the case here. I am under the impression Orion produces good scopes.

Maybe he does have a defective spider.
I am suspicious of his secondary position. Because he has the focuser stroke problem in addition to the collimation problem.

 

[Sheneron]

I think I really need to get someone to look at it, I am just not yet sure who. There is no way I can get the company to help me over the phone, plus the manual it came with is no help at all.

I thought you had to adjust the secondary's position in addition to the tilt in order to center it under the focuser?

 

[Waveform]

Maybe he does have a defective spider.
I am suspicious of his secondary position. Because he has the focuser stroke problem in addition to the collimation problem.

Yes exactly montoyas, I concur...

He should not be having these problems collimating. If the mirror supports, both primary and secondary and scope are 'true' regardless of how far out of alignment one gets, it can still be brought back to relatively good collimation.

 

[Sheneron]

What should I do?

 

[Chronos]

Loosen your mirror mount screws [the ones on the tube, not mirror mount to mirror[.

 

[Sheneron]

The ones that connect the spider vane to the tube?

 

[Waveform]

The screws on the spider control the right angle movement of the secondary mirror. The screws on the primary and secondary mirror control the linear angle between them.

The idea of collimating is to have both the primary and secondary ‘looking’ directly at each other then projecting to the eyepiece.

Think of a laser at the eye piece. The beam going to the center of the secondary mirror, reflecting at a right angle to the center of the primary mirror.
The primary mirror being adjusted to reflect the beam back to the center of the secondary, then to the eyepiece.
This is what you are attempting to adjust for.
In some scopes this will take only several minutes, in others it will absolutely try your patients.

When you have the optical axis optimally ‘lined up’ you have done all you can. The observing view after that point will depend on the eyepiece and the tolerance (wavelength) the mirror was produced to.

Do you have an astronomy club in your area?

 

[Sheneron]

Relatively close, yes. I guess I will try to get there sometime soon. The problem is that I am in school so I don't go home very much, and when I do its for short periods. Would it be acceptable to bring my telescope to the club on the very first time I meet them? I don't want them to think I am using them.

Also, I understand the collimation process quite well at this point. I have read and watched so many things about it to try to get mine to work. If I understand correctly then you want the the eyepiece centered with the secondary mirror, which is done with collimation cap. Well with my scope, the secondary mirror (when viewed through the collimation cap) is centered to the left and right but not up and down. I can only see the top half of the secondary mirror. Furthermore, at the current time, I can no longer tilt the secondary mirror or move it whatsoever. The screws seem to be doing nothing. I am wee bit scared because this scope was a big investment...

 

[montoyas7940]

We are the blind monks examining the elephant...

 

[Chronos]

The ones that connect the spider vane to the tube?

Not those, the ones holding the primary mirror mount.

 

[Waveform]

Would it be acceptable to bring my telescope to the club on the very first time I meet them? I don't want them to think I am using them.

Absolutely yes,,,believe me, they will only to glad to help. I have been in an astronomy club for many years now, and have met many others from different areas. They all have a genuine interest in astronomy and will do most anything to help anyone interested in anything related to astronomy.
They also have the luxury of having the actual scope to work with.

I can guarantee you Sheneron, they will not think you are trying to use them.
The thing they will think, is assisting you with the scope and getting it 'set-up' properly so you can start observing.

Also, I understand the collimation process quite well at this point. .

Yes I understand, I apologize to you if I seemed a bit condescending. Just a wee bit of frustration creeping in. It's so difficult without having the scope and trying to give an explanation through text.

You probably have the screws on the secondary at the 'end of travel'.

 

[Sheneron]

Oh sorry I didn't see this post sooner. For some reason I did not get an email saying this thread was updated.

That is great about the astronomy club, I will definitely email them and get it down there ASAP when I get back home. I can't wait to get it going again. It will also be nice to go observing with the club to let them show me some things.

I hope I didn't seem unappreciative to your help... I did not think you were condescending in the least bit. I was very frustrated at the time and I had read and watched so many videos and spent a lot of the day messing with it just to not be able to use it at night. I am really glad for all your help. I will keep you updated on the astronomy club meeting whenever I get back home; although, that may not be for a month or so.

Thanks again everyone. Clear skies.

 

[Waveform]

I will keep you updated on the astronomy club meeting whenever I get back home.

Thanks again everyone. Clear skies.

Yes, please do that, I would be interested.

 

[Sheneron]

Well the astronomy club didn't pan out, they never e-mailed me back plus I wasn't home from vacation during one of their meeting times. But, the good news is I got it going! It was very exciting, after another day of work with help from my brother (two people makes it a lot easier) it was spot on collimated through the cheshire.

The other night I got out and looked at the moon and saturn and it was very crisp and nice. I saw titan and rhea as well. So, yah, all very exciting.

Anyway, it is my birthday soon so I am thinking about perhaps something to get for the telescope. Right now the only lenses I have are the two it came with a 9mm and a 30mm. I also have a moon filter (couldn't image life without one).

So I was wondering what would be something good to get, around 50 dollars or less. Would another lens be good and if so what size? What about a barlow lens? Any advice would be appreciated. Thank ye.

 

[Waveform]

I am very happy you got it working and did some observing.

I am however surprised the astronomy club did not get back to you. This is certainly not the norm with most clubs...

A 9mm and 30mm have a good amount of diversity.

A 2X barlow would in essence give you 4 eyepieces. Although the 9mm eyepiece may be too much.
I have a 3mm although I don't use it that much. But in nights with good sky transparency I may use it on the moon are planets.

The 30mm to 15mm would be nice.

Another neat thing is a solar filter. You can purchase Baader Solar Filter Material and construct a filter quite easily using bristol board or construction cardboard and a bit of glue.

I fabricated one about three years ago and am very happy with it. It may be useful with a new solar cycle (if and when it ever starts).

I got some quite nice views of sunspots

A good Sky Atlas is another handy item.

I'm sure others here have lots of ideas.

 

[Redbelly98]

I will second the suggestion for a solar filter.

Filling in the gap between 9 and 30 mm is probably a good idea, either with a barlow or a 15-18 mm eyepiece.

p.s. congrats on getting things to work

 

[Sheneron]

How do these barlows look?

http://www.telescope.com/control/pr...hSession=af4b8a6f-aa39-4163-853e-c50aa018a855

http://www.telescopes.com/telescope...celestron2xbarlowlens114omni.cfm#ReviewHeader

And would you suggest building my own solar filter or purchasing one? I am a little cautious about building my own seeing as my vision is depending on it, but it is farily easy?

 

[turbo]

How do these barlows look?

http://www.telescope.com/control/pr...hSession=af4b8a6f-aa39-4163-853e-c50aa018a855

http://www.telescopes.com/telescope...celestron2xbarlowlens114omni.cfm#ReviewHeader

And would you suggest building my own solar filter or purchasing one? I am a little cautious about building my own seeing as my vision is depending on it, but it is farily easy?

Orion is a well-respected company, so their Barlows should be reliable. You don't have a collection of eyepieces yet, so here is your conundrum: You can choose from several powers of Barlows, including 2x, 2.5x, 3x and the choice should hinge on the amount of flexibility that the Barlows will allow you. It is possible to get some very high effective magnifications with Barlows while retaining the eye-relief of the EP that you plug into it. Still, you should avoid duplication of powers. If you had EPs like 12mm, 24mm, 48mm, it would be pretty silly to buy a 2x Barlow because all you would get from that is an equivalent 6mm EP and duplication at the other levels. Good EPs are expensive, so it's a good idea to choose a high-quality Barlow, and choose the multiplicative factor carefully so that you can get a wide range of powers with a modest number of EPs.

 

[Redbelly98]

And would you suggest building my own solar filter or purchasing one? I am a little cautious about building my own seeing as my vision is depending on it, but it is farily easy?

I would purchase one, if you have any doubts about building one yourself. Okay, I myself don't know how easy it is to make your own, but since it is your vision at stake it's not something you can afford to get wrong.

Also, if you get one, you must remember to put it in place before ever aiming the telescope at the sun. That could damage the telescope eyepieces (not to mention the two you carry around in your head.)

 

[Sheneron]

I have some links for filters, I was hoping someone could tell me which is good, or perhaps show me a better one. I am using an 8 inch zhummell dobsonian.

http://www.agenaastro.com/Agena-Visual-Baader-Astro-Solar-Filter-225-mm-p/ofil-ag-sf225v.htm

http://www.telescopes.com/telescope-accessories/filters/celestronastrosolarfilter8forcpc8inch.cfm

http://www.telescopes.com/telescope-accessories/filters/baadersolarfilters.cfm

 

[Waveform]

Perhaps Redbelly 98 has a good point. It may be better to purchase one than build. I'm am/was an engineer so I have this propensity to 'assemble things', and just assume everyone else does the same. Which is a bad assumption on my part.

Although, Baader does enclose directions on how to make a solar filter with their material.

I have used both the Baader 'milar' type filter and glass. I (and this is only a personal preference) preferred the 'cheaper' plastic filter.
I found the glass scratched easily and did not give the same 'white light ' clarity.

Of course you still have to be careful with the Baader film and not stretch or puncture it.

Again I concur with Redbelly98. If you purchase a solar filter be careful with it.
Don't take any chances with your vision.
Barbecuing ones retina is definitely not cool.

However, in fact I had my 10" scope out today with the solar filter on. I bought a new Canon camera yesterday and was trying it out. No sunspots though.


In Barlow lens I have three, a 2X, 3X and 5X. Out of those I use the 2X most frequent when I use a Barlow. I suppose actually the 5X is then next in line. I like to use it at times with the 32mm PLöSSL eyepiece.
Although, I don't think I would recommend a 5X for people just getting into astronomy.

Good EPs are expensive, so it's a good idea to choose a high-quality Barlow, and choose the multiplicative factor carefully so that you can get a wide range of powers with a modest number of EPs.

Could not have said it better myself. :-)