Surds as a vector space, but really an analysis question I think

In summary, the conversation discusses using surds to create a vector space with a basis of prime numbers. The field is over Q and vector space multiplication and addition are defined. The prime numbers form a basis and the goal is to study this basis using Graham Schmidt orthogonalization. To do so, a norm is needed, and the conversation considers using a logarithm but notes that it may not work because the norms of the basis elements need to be in the field Q. Another possible norm is suggested, but it is not clear how it would work.
  • #1
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I guess this is a bit of an interdisciplinary post... a friend of mine was looking at surds as a way of making a vector space with a basis as the prime numbers. Here's the construction:

V = {Surds} = {qr|q is rational and positive, r is rational}

The field that V is over is Q

And we defined vector space multiplication and addition (* and +)as follows for vectors p,q and scalars r,s

p+q:= pq
r*p:= pr

and this forms a vector space with the "zero element" as 1 and multiplicative inverses in Q as the additive inverses in V, and the prime numbers form a basis

Now, the motivation here is to study the basis... the first thought was to perform Graham Schmidt orthogonalization (at least on finite subsets). Ok, so we need a norm. Here's what we can glean:

|.|:V->R
|r*p| = |pr| = |r|*|p| = r*|p|
and
|1| = 0
That looks a lot like a logarithm to me actually... are there any other functions that have this property? The problem with having a logarithm for the norm is that to form an orthonormal basis, you need the norms of your basis elements to lie in the field, which in this case is Q, and I don't think there exists a base b such that logbqr is in Q for all qr in V
 
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  • #2
It depends what you mean by like a logarithm.
Use the "obvious" norm
||v||=||(2^a)(3^b)(5^c)(7^d)...||=||(a,b,c,d,...||=sqrt[a^2+b^2+c^2+d^2+...]
 

FAQ: Surds as a vector space, but really an analysis question I think

1. What is a surd?

A surd is a mathematical expression that contains a root, such as √2 or √3. It is a number that cannot be expressed as a ratio of two integers.

2. How can surds be represented as a vector space?

Surds can be represented as a vector space by considering them as a set of vectors in n-dimensional space, where n is the number of surds. Each surd can be represented as a vector with its magnitude and direction. Operations such as addition and scalar multiplication can be performed on surds, making them a vector space.

3. Why is surds being a vector space important in analysis?

Surds being a vector space is important in analysis because it allows us to use vector space properties and operations to simplify and solve complex surd expressions. This also enables us to apply vector calculus methods to solve problems involving surds.

4. Can surds be represented as a basis for a vector space?

Yes, surds can be represented as a basis for a vector space. A basis is a set of linearly independent vectors that span the entire vector space. Since surds are linearly independent, they can form a basis for a vector space of surds.

5. How can the concept of surds as a vector space be applied in real-world situations?

The concept of surds as a vector space can be applied in real-world situations in fields such as engineering, physics, and economics. For example, in engineering, surds can be used to represent quantities such as voltage and current in electrical circuits. In physics, surds can be used to represent physical quantities such as velocity and acceleration. In economics, surds can be used to represent variables such as interest rates and inflation rates.

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