Syriana, Depressing and true to life.

[ComputerGeek]

I just saw Syriana. It shows that little bits of corruption end up killing reform in the middle east which in turn perpetuates terrorism.

It also does a good job of showing that many terrorists are not indoctrinated to violence, they are slowly persuaded through peer pressure to do acts they normally would not.

what do you all think?

 

[Pengwuino]

True to life? Even the producers didn't claim it was true to life from what I remember... i better go check it out (just kidding, I am not fighitng these damn malls to see a movie around this time of year.).

And why are you getting your geopolitical information from hollywood?

 

[ComputerGeek]

True to life, meaning this is the kind of stuff that happens. They do not claim this this depicts actual events.

Like a movie involving an injustice in the US court system, Syriana is story that speaks for all events like this one that take place.

 

[russ_watters]

True to life, meaning this is the kind of stuff that happens.

Is it? How do you know?

I'm a little wary of attaching too much reality to a fictional movie, but I haven't seen it yet, so...

 

[Pengwuino]

True to life, meaning this is the kind of stuff that happens. They do not claim this this depicts actual events.

Like a movie involving an injustice in the US court system, Syriana is story that speaks for all events like this one that take place.

I still don't understand how you can say "this kind of stuff happens" and then say that it doesn't depict actual events...

 

[ComputerGeek]

a movie about a bank robbery is a movie about stuff that actually happens, but does not depict actual events.

do you need me to be more concrete?

 

[ComputerGeek]

Is it? How do you know?
I'm a little wary of attaching too much reality to a fictional movie, but I haven't seen it yet, so...

You have to be a truly naive person regarding the US Government to think that we do not conduct covert operations to undermine movements that do not fit with our interests in the middle east.

 

[Pengwuino]

a movie about a bank robbery is a movie about stuff that actually happens, but does not depict actual events.
do you need me to be more concrete?

... that's such a non-statement. Every movie outside of disney movies are about things that actually could happen...

 

[ComputerGeek]

then what was your point? Do you deny that the US actively undermines movements that are counter their best interests in other countries?

 

[Pengwuino]

then what was your point? Do you deny that the US actively undermines movements that are counter their best interests in other countries?

Is that you're conclusion based off a hollywood movie?

How can the movie be about us undermining things while you say it doesn't depict real events and then you say the us undermines things based off the movie? I think you'd make sense if you got rid of the idea that it doesn't depict real events because in your opinion, it does. Everyone knows the US undermines movements in the Arab world like various radical movements or terrorist groups etc etc, the question is whether or not the movie depicts actual events or not. You are claiming they don't but then you say that what the movie depicts actually does happen which is contradictory to your opinion that it doesn't happen.

 

[Cyrus]

The scripwritter for this movie was on charlie rose last friday. He said he based most of the movie on things he noted in real life. For example, he said one time he was at a card game with some rich mega powerful men, who were debating which was the next country to fall. And he goes on to say, and then the richest guy of them all said no, your all wrong, this country will fall, and ill tell you how. And a couple of weeks later exactly that happened. Also, he went to Seria to do some background for the script, and when he got off the plane, someone called him on his cell phone. Then he was wisked away in a car and taken to the religious leader of Hezobllah. He goes on to tell the rest of his story. He was an excillent guest on the show and a magnificent story teller. I want to go see his movie once my finals are over, it should be quite good.

 

[edward]

All Things Considered, December 6, 2005 · Former CIA officer Robert Baer's book See No Evil inspired the new film Syriana, about the Middle East, the oil industry and espionage. Baer discusses the film and separates cinematic fact from fiction.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5041385

I saw this guy on television talking about the movie. He was very convincing. He stated in no uncertain terms that events depicted in the movie were very true to life. He also claimed that as a CIA agent he was involved in many operations that were similar to those in the movie.

 

[ComputerGeek]

Pengwuino,

Rush would be proud of your ability to confuse the discussions.

The movie is a conglomeration of activities that go on in real life but the movie itself does not depict an actual singular event.

The US does undermine democratic movements in countries where it would hurt the US. That has been going on since the end of World War II.

The US does send spies into other countries to get jobs done that would be against the law for those agents to do themselves.

 

[ComputerGeek]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5041385
I saw this guy on television talking about the movie. He was very convincing. He stated in no uncertain terms that events depicted in the movie were very true to life. He also claimed that as a CIA agent he was involved in many operations that were similar to those in the movie.

Don't try to convince Pengwuino, he will just claim the guy is full of it and go along his merry way.

 

[edward]

the question is whether or not the movie depicts actual events or not. You are claiming they don't but then you say that what the movie depicts actually does happen which is contradictory to your opinion that it doesn't happen.

If the movie depicted actual events and not fictionalized versions of actual events all hell would break loose in the Middle East.

 

[edward]

Don't try to convince Pengwuino, he will just claim the guy is full of it and go along his merry way.

That's OK. That is what political forums are all about.

 

[Cyrus]

Guys, the movie parallels events that were claimed by this guy who was a CIA agent and the experiences of the script writter. It is not based on anyone single event. That should be obvious, since it doesn't say anywhere, "based on a true story."

 

[Mercator]

If the movie depicted actual events and not fictionalized versions of actual events all hell would break loose in the Middle East.

So now it's only half hell that broke loose?

 

[Mercator]

I'm going to check my local videopirate here if they already have a copy!

 

[ComputerGeek]

cyrusabdollahi, that was the point of the thread. To get the thoughts about the parallels to reality.

 

[Cyrus]

What thoughts do you have? I think its quite obvious that the US government does things of that nature, the same way that Hezbollah does terrorist activities against the US. Its a game, no different than that played during the cold war. A game with unspoken but sometimes known rules, unknown players in unknown lands with unknown winners and loosers, if you get what I am saying. We don't hear about the things the US does becuase its not on the news, but I assure you that the people living the the middle east see the effects of these things and are fully aware of what goes on, or at least gets a sniff of it on occassion.

It also does a good job of showing that many terrorists are not indoctrinated to violence, they are slowly persuaded through peer pressure to do acts they normally would not.

In actually, it has been found that most terrorists are not fundamental. They usually are guys that hit rough times, can't find jobs or are not given jobs due to their ethnic status. Out of a combination of desperation and depression, they turn to terrorism. (Although this is certainly not the only case where this happens, it is one example).

 

[loseyourname]

May as well give a little outline of the events in the film for those that haven't seen it. No spoilers, though.

The primary story is of a plot to kill a reform-minded Prince in some unnamed middle-eastern country and influence the reigning King, who is dying, to hand over the reigns to his other son, because the reform-minded son wants to give oil contracts to a Chinese company (citing that they made a better offer and that they actually bother to learn Arabic when negotiating) and the other son is willing to give the contracts to a US company.

There are two main subplots going on at the same time. One is about an investigation of a merger between a big oil company that will receive the oil in the aforementioned unnamed country if the little brother becomes King, and a smaller company that beat out the larger company for control of a pipeline in Kazakhstan. The other subplot is about a man and his son that get laid-off when the oil refineries in the aforementioned unnamed country come under new ownership. Since their workers visas are up, the only way for them to stay in the country (they are Pakistani) is for the son to join an Islamic school, where he is seduced into becoming a suicide bomber.

The stories are told from the points of view of many different protagonist, including the CIA agent initially sent to assassinate the reform-minded Prince, an energy-trading consultant whose son dies at the Prince's house and is made the Prince's personal economic advisor, the investigator into the shady oil company merger, as well as the Prince and the islamic son themselves.

The institutions that end up coming out in a bad light are 1) Middle-Eastern rulers that sell-out their countries for short-term increases in their own personal wealth and spend money on $500K cars while the infrastructure of the land crumbles, 2) large oil companies that circumvent the law to simply merge with anybody that outbids them for a coveted contract, 3) the US justice department for letting them get away with it and simply nailing a few patsies when a fuss is raised, 4) the CIA for assassinating potential leaders that would do genuine good for their own countries, but not serve the interests of the US, and 5) Islamic fundamentalist terrorist groups that seduce impressionable and hurting young men to sacrifice themselves. The only people that come out of this looking somewhat good and are sympathetically portrayed are the earnest reformers who get killed and the naive suicide bombers who get killed.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

4) the CIA for assassinating potential leaders that would do genuine good for their own countries, but not serve the interests of the US

I believe there is a presidential order stating that the CIA is not allowed to carry out assasinations. Not to say that they wouldn't try to have someone assasinated but I think that they would have to get "independant contractors" for such jobs or help out some other organization that is already wanting to assasinate the person.

 

[ComputerGeek]

In the movie, that contractor's name is Musoui. He double crosses George Clooney after he got paid and tortures cloony's character by pulling out his fingernails (and they show it...ewww)

 

[Art]

I believe there is a presidential order stating that the CIA is not allowed to carry out assasinations. Not to say that they wouldn't try to have someone assasinated but I think that they would have to get "independant contractors" for such jobs or help out some other organization that is already wanting to assasinate the person.

The presidential order passed in 1976 was applicable only to foreign leaders.

There are numerous examples of CIA assassinations in recent times such as,

On November 5, 2002, newspapers reported that Al-Qaeda operatives in a car traveling through Yemen had been killed by a missile launched from a CIA-controlled Predator drone (a medium-altitude, remote-controlled aircraft). On May 15, 2005, it was reported [5] that another of these drones had been used to assassinate Al-Qaeda figure Haitham al-Yemeni inside Pakistan.

 

[loseyourname]

I believe there is a presidential order stating that the CIA is not allowed to carry out assasinations. Not to say that they wouldn't try to have someone assasinated but I think that they would have to get "independant contractors" for such jobs or help out some other organization that is already wanting to assasinate the person.

I was actually thinking recently that if this is a completely accurate portrayal of how the US conducts foreign relations, why isn't Evo Morales dead?

 

[edward]

I was actually thinking recently that if this is a completely accurate portrayal of how the US conducts foreign relations, why isn't Evo Morales dead?

He may be soon.

LA PAZ, Bolivia -- The winner of Bolivia's presidential elections has repeated his vow to nationalize oil and gas and said he will void at least some contracts held by foreign companies "looting" the poor Andean nation's natural resources.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/1310AP_Bolivia_Oil_Companies.html

 

[Hal von Luebbert]

The Mongoose Trick - Syriana

Several friends who know that I was recuited at fifteen to do what the character Bob Barnes does (from what they tell me) for the Company want me to see "Syriana." That's in order, I guess, for me to comment. I'll see it this afternoon. The last time this happened the movie was "The Bourne Identity" (yeah, I know - it was at the dollar theater). Two movies in one year . . . I must be getting old as hell.

If anybody cares, I'll see how "Syriana" relates to reality.