Tenure tracks and dead ends in academia

[Pirx]

Something has prompted me to peruse this forum like a morning/afternoon/evening newspaper after I've joined and now I can't help but scratch my head about a few things. See, I'm a traveller from the distant realm of technical universities (which are completely different beasts from non-technical and host solely, with maybe 1-2 exceptions, engineering programs) and thus haven't had the chance to speak to anyone coming from Pure Sciences about the academia vs. industry dichotomy. Additionally, in the major I study, very few people worry about job insecurity and rarely want to have anything to do in academia once they get their diploma. Some problems have simply slipped my mind.

The excellent series of posts So you want to be a Physicist, and especially the last few out of the 22 topics, made me wonder what exactly happens when a physics PhD after doing post-docs still fails to secure position as a professor / national lab worker / other dream-job. I'm aware that you can enter industry even without a picture-perfect industry CV with enough luck and suavity; but what about those who would try to stay in academia regardless? Is there a class of some sort of "academic limbo" positions for physicists who won't become professors but also refuse to leave academia?

 

[CrysPhys]

Career options will be highly dependent on the country you plan to work in. From the language in your posts, it's apparent you're not in the US, and your profile doesn't list a country. If you want feedback that will be of value to you, you will need to identify what country you're in or what countries you plan to work in.

 

[Pirx]

You're right, I'm not from the US. I ask this question out of sheer curiosity, to be honest, which is why I didn't specify a country. I'm from Central-Eastern Europe but I don't mind hearing answers pertinent to other regions or even continents.

 

[Timo]

There are permanent non-professoral university positions that I would still count as academia. My PhD advisor, for example, was not given tenure. He officially now is responsible for lab security (as a theoretical physicist). I have been at two physics institutes that had a permanent position for a person that compiles and corrects the students' homework. In one case the position was officially created as a contribution to improve excellence in teaching. It was given to the not-so-junior-anymore professor that had replaced a deceased tenure track professor for a few years before the open position was given to another candidate.

Tax-payer financed research institutes, e.g. the European Joint Research Centers, have non-professoral permanent staff. Not sure how much you would still count that as academia. And not all of these people are people that wanted to stay in academia and failed to get a professorship. Most people I know rather wanted to get out of academia but got stuck with a well paid, comfortable, economically safe and permanent position.

Then, as a rarer but more visible cases: At two universities I have been at there was that one guy who always shows up to the faculty seminars or public events on certain topics and always asks questions that make the senior staff role their eyes. And everyone knows them because they have been doing that for years if not decades. In the case I am vaguely familiar with the guy had an initially normal and good scientific career. But then his career stagnated while the claims in his publications became increasingly grandiose - to the point that he had no paid position anymore and wrote open letters to the Karolinska Institute that he figured out quantum consciousness. People said that his family was wealthy enough that he did not need to work. Such cases are not common, but I believe many universities have one such person.

So to your question: These "academic limbo" positions do exist to some degree, at least in my experience. But not as an organized fallback path. More as individual solutions.

 

[Frabjous]

Research universities also have staff scientists whose jobs are generally secure as long as there is soft money. There are also networks of small soft money organizations in certain fields that cluster around universities.

 

[mathwonk]

Since professors are expensive, those university departments with large teaching responsibilities, like mathematics but less so physics perhaps, often employ numerous instructors and lecturers. Their function is so valuable that their work may be essentially permanent even if relatively poorly paid and untenured.

here is a description of untenured faculty positions at Univ of Georgia, and a directory of "Academic Professionals" in the math dept. Some of them I know have been in their roles for decades. Physics has none of these listed, only "adjunct" positions which are unpaid.

https://nontenuretrack.uga.edu/resources/AtAGlanceComparisonofNTTRanks-10.2022.pdf

https://www.math.uga.edu/directory/academic-professionals,-lecturers,-instructors

 

[Pirx]

Research universities also have staff scientists whose jobs are generally secure as long as there is soft money. There are also networks of small soft money organizations in certain fields that cluster around universities.

I'm not versed in the terminology, so just to be clear: when you are in a position that is dependent on soft money, do you have to reapply every time a grant is obtained but are well-known at the institution and can be sure they'll let you in, or you are continuously employed but would be first in the line to be laid off if the soft money disappeared?

 

[mathwonk]

in my understanding, if your job depends on "soft money", then when it disappears you are back at square one, i.e. out of a job. although the connections you have made may help you find a new post, no money = no job. it is possible physics attracts more soft money than math but I do not know this. most money used to be in biological and medical sciences.

 

[Frabjous]

I'm not versed in the terminology, so just to be clear: when you are in a position that is dependent on soft money, do you have to reapply every time a grant is obtained but are well-known at the institution and can be sure they'll let you in, or you are continuously employed but would be first in the line to be laid off if the soft money disappeared?

They are continuously employed with employment contingent on funding. Occasionally, they will carry people for a few months if money is expected. Some places have large, multi-year contracts so it is not always individual PI’s pursuing individual grants. I also know of tenured faculty who hire staff scientists to run their labs.