Did Nazi Germany Develop Antigractic Flying Saucers During WWII?

[SAZAR]

Some time ago I've seen some dubious documentary about the times of World War 2 and how nazis supposedly had some secret base on Antarctica and were experimenting with disk-like vehicles that were supposed to go into space -- they don't even have to explain how it would work - the choice of location for the base of operations says it all -- then the description of mechanism for function of such vehicle exactly matches the stereotype we all know and have seen countless of times (about how 'flying saucer' looks and moves - spins that is).

I mean -- obviously the idea was/would be to
use the magnetic field of the Earth to repel the vehicle facing the Earths' axis at Antarctica (where the field is directed upwards - toward the space) with a giant magnet (probably electromagnet) inside the vehicle with the same polarity (south magnetic pole), and to achieve that obviously one must ensure that it wouldn't flip over when the electromagnet turns on - and you do that by applying the same principle that makes a spining toy stand straight - make it spin.

(of course such 'flying saucer' could only be seen falling uncontrollably at places away from Earth's magnetic poles, not flying around with great dexterity and speed in front of unsuspecting people's cameras :) ha ha)

So my question here is:
Theoretically, how strong a magnet inside the flying saucer must be in order for it to use the Earth's repelling magnetic field to lift it off?
(first: was this experiment repeated at any time in history?)

 

[russ_watters]

So my question here is:
Theoretically, how strong a magnet inside the flying saucer must be in order for it to use the Earth's repelling magnetic field to lift it off?
(first: was this experiment repeated at any time in history?)

Without calculating it, we can say that since the poles magnetic field is barely strong enough to align a magnetic needle on a near-frictionless bearing (orders of magnitude less than is required to lift it), it would take an unimaginably high field strength to lift an airplane-sized object.

 

[SAZAR]

Hmm... a disc of say 100 m diameter is a lot of surface... gee I would like to see the numbers for that...

 

[{~}]

In Antarctica the magnetic field is around 0.6 gauss. A 100m diameter disk has an area of 7850 m^2. This means we have 0.471 webbers of flux from the Earth to play with.

Let's build the saucer to exactly 20 megagrams. Gravity is 9.83 m/s^2 here so we need to exceed 1.97x10^8 Newtons to attain lift.

I don't really know how to work the problem from here as magnetic repulsion is a lot more complicated than you would think.

 

[{~}]

So I thought about this problem some more and I think that I was missing something fundamental about magnetism.

I was thinking of the saucer as a dipole and the Earth as having a uniform magnetic (which for most purposes is close enough). But the saucer is more like a current carrying loop of wire and the Earth's field is not uniform.

Earlier I was thinking about opposed like poles as having "magnetic charge," something that is sometimes useful in problems with bar magnets. Now I think magnetic repulsion has to do with change in flux. As you force more field lines into the volume encompassed by a magnet, or the area enclosed by a loop of current, causes induction, or if induction suppressed, force.

To generate lift we can run current through the outer edge of the saucer. Because the field is nearly uniform and so weak it's going to take lots of current.

 

[SAZAR]

Ha ha - something like a nuclear reactor inside? (And fan blades in the middle circle of the disc (as the entire saucer is spinning) to help lift-off while in atmosphere.)

...Hmmm - maybe entire surface of the saucer covered with solar panels (but there is no 90 degree sunlight on poles)

(Ha ha ha - now I'm getting sci-fi: the supercooled semiconductors to help it levitate above the magnetic field, and yeah - super-strong artificial magnetic field on ground so it could lift it off from anywhere in the world! Ha!)

 

[SAZAR]

(Of course - the magnetic field quickly diminishes so it wouldn't work.)

 

[SAZAR]

To generate lift we can run current through the outer edge of the saucer. Because the field is nearly uniform and so weak it's going to take lots of current.

I've read some time ago about experiments with supercooled superconducting materials that can be used to carry tremendeous amounts of current and create superstrong magnetic fields unafected by induction feedback (or something). ...Can't find it on the 'net now though.

 

[{~}]

This is a tough question to answer but I keep thinking about it. Let me get back to you in about a month or so when we will be studying magnetic flux in my class.

It has to do with something called divergence. The idea is that if we make more field lines pass through the body of the saucer lift will be created because nature tries to conserve field lines or something like that. Of course gravity complicates things.

 

[Lohar]

How to make a flying saucer. A disc rotating around bearings on a stem, cut into quadrants, tilt each quad so that it has an angle of attack put in motion by compressed air emerging from nozzles at the edges, rotating seals not discussed. Beneath 2 fan/turbines with cockpit between - these supply air. Pendulum effect supplies pitch and roll stability two dihedral fins at rear - yaw. Vertical takeoff. Horizontal flight as follows switch air supplied to low level this will stop rotation and by design remove angles of attack. Reduce stem ( which by a rotating joint has tilted disc plane for a limited forward speed to prevent stall. ) selected quad will catch on to rear of fuselarge giving disc angle of attack ( which is opposite to that for forw.motion in rot. disc mode. You now have a conventional fixed wing plane. Gate out some of the rear turbine, pass diverted air thru ,you now have conventianal jet, accelerate to higher stalling speed release whatever locks you have on quad ( leavers thru rear attach. )so that air resistance and help from nozzles will fold quads into delta wing -lock!By the way the mechanisms involved are complex. You now have a conventional super sonic fighter.The top and bottom quads will have suitable curvature, aeralon? - control by flaps or more complexity. There's far more to this than the above but as I don't get paid for my ideas I leave this to others.

 

[Naty1]

...how nazis supposedly had some secret base on Antarctica and were experimenting with disk-like vehicles

According to a TV documentary, maybe HISTORY CHANNEL?, about advanced German research during WW II, the experimental 'saucer' base was in Germany, Bavaria maybe, and was heavily guarded within concentric rings of protection...the SS general in charge 'disappeared' along with any 'saucer' at the very end of the war ...and the speculation is 'to other worlds'...but perhaps more likely to 'other countries'. The location is known, but exactly what was done there is not.

In any case, what IS known is that Germans did experiment and produce rockets [V2, etc] and jets and did theoretical work with nuclear bombs and produced heavy water in Norway.