The Physics of Winter Driving: How to Handle Snow and Ice on the Road

[Moonbear]

So, I've finally thawed out enough to type, despite getting home about 2 hours ago. My car is once again parked at the row of townhomes below mine because it won't get up my hill, and that was only after getting towed up another hill on the way home (I wouldn't have gotten stuck except someone else got stuck ahead of me, so I had to slow down, and being a steep, uphill, S-curve, once I lost the momentum, that was the end of it). No shoulders there, just ditches. Fortunately, there were also EMTs stuck with their ambulance, so they had the flashing lights on so nobody else ran us over...though it didn't stop several from trying. The tow-truck driver made some good money tonight pulling people up that hill, and I'm glad he came along, because the AAA tow driver was going to be 90 minutes! By then, I could have walked to the farm(I was still within site of it), gotten a shovel, and started digging. I was totally unprepared...hadn't been watching the weather reports, so didn't know to expect snow today. We're supposed to get a lot, and it's supposed to keep coming until Monday too. I have stuff already started in the lab that I can't leave until Monday...somehow, I have to get there tomorrow. I can just go for a short time and get everything to a point where it CAN wait until Monday, but it's not at that point now.

I think it's time to bite the bullet and start shopping for a vehicle with 4 WD. I love my little car and the gas mileage it gets, but it just can't handle the type of road conditions we get here. The people with 4WD had no problem navigating the road I was stuck on, even from a complete stop, and I have to go that way to get home. I really just wish I could hunker down and stay home until the snow stops. If I didn't start so much in the lab, I could. Unfortuntely, the stuff I'm doing right now is not something I trust anyone else in the lab to do for me (I'm still teaching them this stuff), so I can't just call someone who comes from a different direction or lives closer or who will be there anyway to do it for me. Hopefully they clear the roads at least by tomorrow afternoon, which is when I need to be there. The real problem is there seems to be a layer of ice under the snow since we had rain first. At least after I got stuck, I know the police were going to contact the highway department to clear that road. Fortunately, none of us who were stuck skidded off the road into a ditch (they're pretty deep there and probably would have done a lot of damage to land in one...I don't really know why they don't put up a guard rail there or fill in the ditch a bit so when you skid into it, you don't trash the underside of the car so you can just get pulled back out and go on your way...maybe the water run-off just erodes it and they can't do anything about it, but every bad storm we've had, people land in the ditch there. And, nobody was hit by the cars driving around us, so that's good too (I was very nervous about that, and for that reason, was quite happy to pay the tow truck driver who happened to pass through before AAA got anyone out there...talking to the EMTs, it sounded like there weren't many tow trucks left to go around in town, because so many were already being called by the police).

Anyway, since I wasn't prepared for snow, I wasn't really dressed properly for it either (the lab has been "tropical" lately...the heat does whatever it wants, regardless of what the thermostat is set for...we had several days when it was over 80 degrees in the lab), so got home absolutely freezing from just the few minutes I was standing outside to pay the tow truck driver and from talking to the other people stuck on the hill with me...we were making sure everyone had a phone and someone to call, etc.

So, that was my exciting night. The mountains are very pretty, but I think I like them better in the summer! It would be nice to live on flatter ground again in the winter.

 

[Cyrus]

Somehow, I feel like I should get paid by the hour for reading this.

So tell me moonbear, how does that make you feel?

Uh huh...uh huh...keep going.

Im sorry our time is up for today.

 

[Moonbear]

Somehow, I feel like I should get paid by the hour for reading this.

So tell me moonbear, how does that make you feel?

Uh huh...uh huh...keep going.

Im sorry our time is up for today.

Yeah, I kind of feel just like that.

I was hoping to spend a long day at the lab tomorrow to get enough done to submit an abstract due later in the week, but with this weather, I guess I'm just going to have to pass...without a full day in the lab tomorrow, the only day I have uninterrupted to get work done, it's just not going to happen. Oh well, it would have been pushing it anyway, but since I've already been putting in the long days, it was worth aiming for.

 

[tribdog]

man, let her warm up before you start in on her. Being cold sucks. I feel for you Moonbear. I have a four wheel drive if you need to get anywhere. Of course you would have to give me your address and put me up for the night.

 

[Moonbear]

man, let her warm up before you start in on her. Being cold sucks. I feel for you Moonbear. I have a four wheel drive if you need to get anywhere. Of course you would have to give me your address and put me up for the night.

I think I'd rather be in AZ right now.

 

[Cyrus]

Moonbear, if you EVER feel the need to talk to someone, I am always here for you. Just leave a message at my office, the answering machine will pick up:

Welcome to the Cyrus' Psychiatric Hotline.
If you are obsessive-compulsive, please press 1 repeatedly.
If you are co-dependent, please ask someone to press 2.
If you have multiple personalities, please press 3, 4, 5, and 6.
If you are paranoid-delusional, we know who you are and what you want. Just stay on the line so we can trace the call.
If you are schizophrenic, listen carefully and a little voice will tell you which number to press.
If you are depressed, it doesn't matter which number you press. No one will answer.
If you are delusional and occasionally hallucinate, please be aware that the thing you are holding on the side of your head is alive and about to bite off your ear.

 

[Moonbear]

Moonbear, if you EVER feel the need to talk to someone, I am always here for you. Just leave a message at my office, the answering machine will pick up:

Welcome to the Cyrus' Psychiatric Hotline.
If you are obsessive-compulsive, please press 1 repeatedly.
If you are co-dependent, please ask someone to press 2.
If you have multiple personalities, please press 3, 4, 5, and 6.
If you are paranoid-delusional, we know who you are and what you want. Just stay on the line so we can trace the call.
If you are schizophrenic, listen carefully and a little voice will tell you which number to press.
If you are depressed, it doesn't matter which number you press. No one will answer.
If you are delusional and occasionally hallucinate, please be aware that the thing you are holding on the side of your head is alive and about to bite off your ear.

I think tribdog's offer sounded better. At least he was offering to warm me up and was going to let me talk to a live person (well, not sure how much talking he had in mind, but at least there was an actual person involved, not just me sitting here by myself pressing buttons ).

 

[Cyrus]

I guess you guys are going to do some off-roading in tribs suv. I understand.

 

[Moonbear]

I just decided to make some hot cocoa and am sitting in front of the fireplace with it. This is much better than the alternative I was considering, which was that they might not have been able to get me back up the hill, just heading back down it again, which would have probably meant camping out at the farm tonight...there's a shower and coffee pot and a cot there, so I could have managed the night until the farm crew showed up (I was contemplating it if they had to tow the car and couldn't give me a ride with it...as it was, they were actually just able to pull me up the hill with me steering...it was, well, let's say an interesting experience). Apparently I'm the only one around here who didn't know it was supposed to snow, so I don't know why they can't get the roads pre-treated, and keep a plow running on some of these more heavily trafficked, but treacherous when snow-covered roads. I didn't even realize the snow had gotten so bad, because of all the things I complain that our university doesn't do well, apparently the one thing they DO do well is clearing the snow from parking lots and roads on campus, so when I kept looking out the window, it didn't seem like much snow at all. I still thought the road I traveled home was one of the main ones people drive to get to the hospital because I don't know of any other route that cuts across the town from this end, so thought it ought to be kept as clear as the roads right around the hospital, but apparently I was wrong. Good thing the stuck EMTs didn't have any calls they needed to respond to!

 

[zoobyshoe]

Moonbear, if you EVER feel the need to talk to someone, I am always here for you. Just leave a message at my office, the answering machine will pick up:...

That was hilarious. Too bad you plagiarized it.

 

[Cyrus]

I think Moonbear is bored When I get bored I talk to myself. Sometimes in public too.....not good. You should watch a movie moonbear.

 

[Moonbear]

I think Moonbear is bored When I get bored I talk to myself. Sometimes in public too.....not good. You should watch a movie moonbear.

I'm not talking to myself! At least, that wasn't the plan. I was talking to the PFers. But, heh, when I'm frustrated/upset over something, I sound the same talking to someone in person. You responded very well...just sit back and nod and wait until the incoherent tirade is over, then tell a bad joke to get me smiling again. You sound like you have experience in dealing with this.

 

[tribdog]

I'm not talking to myself! At least, that wasn't the plan. I was talking to the PFers. But, heh, when I'm frustrated/upset over something, I sound the same talking to someone in person. You responded very well...just sit back and nod and wait until the incoherent tirade is over, then tell a bad joke to get me smiling again. You sound like you have experience in dealing with this.

he's definitely got the bad joke part down pat

 

[cronxeh]

...talking to the EMTs

aww I'm sorry you had to undergo that ordeal

 

[Lisa!]

Has anyone read OP?
I'm curious to know what's the matter!:shy:

 

[Moonbear]

Has anyone read OP?
I'm curious to know what's the matter!:shy:

Nothing anymore. I got stuck in the snow on the way home, along with several other people, along a nasty section of road. I just had to vent about it because I was cold, unhappy, and wanted some sympathy.

 

[Pengwuino]

Well moonbear, i think if you really can't fix your roof, you may need to hire a contractor

 

[Moonbear]

Well moonbear, i think if you really can't fix your roof, you may need to hire a contractor

...

 

[Lisa!]

Nothing anymore. I got stuck in the snow on the way home, along with several other people, along a nasty section of road. I just had to vent about it because I was cold, unhappy, and wanted some sympathy.

Then you talked to some cold people about it and felt even worse!

morals: getting stuck in a cold weather on a nasty section of road is a lot better than being with some cold and unfriendly people whom incrrease your pain and sadness instead of cheering you up!

 

[Moonbear]

Then you talked to some cold people about it and felt even worse!

morals: getting stuck in a cold weather on a nasty section of road is a lot better than being with some cold and unfriendly people whom incrrease your pain and sadness instead of cheering you up!

Thank you for understanding!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Nothing anymore. I got stuck in the snow on the way home, along with several other people, along a nasty section of road. I just had to vent about it because I was cold, unhappy, and wanted some sympathy.

You can't run chains or studded tires?

 

[Astronuc]

It is still snowing here, already 4-6 inches (10-15 cm).

Moonbear, given the geography of WV, it probably is time to get a 4WD vehicle. Even front wheel drive with all weather radials will have problems on the hills.

As for chains, they are OK for short distances, and studs are generally discouraged in the NE, and illegal in some places due to the damage they do the road surface. Here they plow and dump sand and salt, which is why many cars rust out after 10 years.

Time to go shovel the driveway , or at least the entrance which gets the plowed snow from the street.

 

[arildno]

Snow is evil, but beautiful.
Reminds me of Jadis.

 

[Hurkyl]

My car is once again parked at the row of townhomes below mine because it won't get up my hill, and that was only after getting towed up another hill on the way home (I wouldn't have gotten stuck except someone else got stuck ahead of me, so I had to slow down, and being a steep, uphill, S-curve, once I lost the momentum, that was the end of it).

There was this one big steep hill on one of the routes from home to school when I was still in Michigan. One bad icy day, we (as in Michiganders) coped by having everybody stop when they got to the hill, and then going over it one car at a time.

You could probably get by with that here: stop at the bottom of the hill until the traffic is out of sight, then go. (Of course, the people behind you might not be so happy!)

 

[Lisa!]

No snow here!

 

[Hurkyl]

I just looked outside... it's gorgeous! There's even piles of snow on the tree branches! (Sigh, why are the beautiful things dangerous?)

 

[Lisa!]

I'm so jealous of you!

 

[Moonbear]

There was this one big steep hill on one of the routes from home to school when I was still in Michigan. One bad icy day, we (as in Michiganders) coped by having everybody stop when they got to the hill, and then going over it one car at a time.

You could probably get by with that here: stop at the bottom of the hill until the traffic is out of sight, then go. (Of course, the people behind you might not be so happy!)

Usually, that's what I do, just give the person ahead of me so much room that they are already up the hill before I start so I don't have to slow down for them...the problem was that someone was already stuck on the hill, right in the bend, and I had to slow down to go around them, and that's when I hit the icy spot and couldn't get over it. I never had a problem getting up steep hills before, but those were always straight runs, so I'd pick up speed near the bottom and just maintain it to the top. Around here, the steep hills are on S-curves. Where I got stuck, the road is nearly a 90 degree bend, so you can't take it too fast anyway, or you wind up in the ditch. I've seen 4WD vehicles in that ditch too. You also can't see that someone is already stuck until you've started up the hill a bit, because of the way it curves. The alternative isn't much of one...go back up the S-curvey hill the other way (the starting point is in the valley between two S-curve hills...and it's a very populated road too, which is why I really think they should just drown the road with salt when they know a storm is coming).

Ivan, as for chains, it's not deep snow, but ice that's the problem. And since I didn't know it was supposed to snow, it would have been useless anyway. I don't even know if it would have helped. The tires are part of the problem, though...at least I think so. I have the best all-weather tires made for my car, but I still don't think they really grip the road very well. I don't like the treads on them. They work well enough for channeling water out in rainy weather, but are quite different from what I used to put on my old car that just never lost traction and got me through some really nasty MI road conditions.

They do something really weird here for treating the roads for storms. I don't know how much salt they put down, but instead of sand, which is what I'm used to going down with salt, they spread this lumpy ash type stuff (my best guess is that it's from burning the coal they produce in the state...it looks like coal or charcoal)...I honestly think it makes the roads worse rather than better, because it's like having gravel or, well, marbles, for traction...which is to say, you get no traction out of it at all.

Anyway, it's sunny now and the road looks clear, so I'm going to venture to the lab and do what I need to do. At the first hint of more snow, I'm picking up and leaving.

 

[Ouabache]

Whenever it snows that much, I usually break out the Nordic skis. That always puts me in a better mood. I was skiing in a storm like this out in Indiana, when it was -14F out. Made sure I remembered my face-mask, when i got back my eyebrows were frosted over.
Somebody should have had a camera...

In Indiana they don't salt roads outside of the major cities, just sand.. When it came to hills, I learned to chose alternate routes so I didn't have to go down or climb them.

 

[Cyrus]

Someone once told me that in austria they don't use salt to melt the snow because its bad for the water supply. Instead they use small crushed rocks of the same size for traction. I don't know if its true or not. Anyone here know?

 

[stuckgirl]

Stuck in the snow Again!

My name is Amy, and I guess by the name it tells you I’m a girl. I live in Central Vermont, and went to school in Michigan so I had my share of winter driving and got stuck way too many times. I work in a rather professional office so I wear a lot of skirts and dresses. I have a 2003 Mustang with manual transmission and a 2006 Mustang with automatic transmission. On this particular night I had my 2006 Mustang, it has summer tires on it, and this was the first time in the snow with it. I had left work about 7pm, we had a 3 inch mixture of snow and ice on the roads and cars, it was still snowing lightly. Actually due to my being somewhat of an air head I had to let the car warm up about 15 minutes because I neglected to put a snow brush and ice scraper in the car. So after warming the car up, I struggled to get the car our of my parking space and out of the parking lot, and managed to make my way to the entrance ramp to the interstate, a normal 10 minute drive which this night took about 30 minutes. The entrance ramp was clogged with cars trying to make it up, so I thought that I would drive to my tennis club to burn a little time and use the ladies room because by now I had to go sooooo badly. The club is located in a part of an industrial complex, I turned onto the road leading to the club, and was not picky as to where to park which was a parallel parking space in front of the building, only to find the place closed. The area where my club is, is not widely traveled and you somewhat have to go out of your way to find it, and also in a bad area as my cell phone could not get a signal. Once back in the car I found myself stuck so badly, spinning my wheels helplessly. Not that I mind being stuck, because for me I feel sexy and helpless spinning my wheels in my Mustangs, and you often meet some real cute hunks who are more than gladly to rescue the “damsel in distress”, however I was really not going anywhere, and I was getting super frantic because of my need to use the ladies room at this time and I was rather desperate by now. I think I was there for a total of two hours to 2 and ½ hours and must have been on a lot of ice also because I was not going anywhere, wheels just spinning and spinning, when a plow operator who plows the club parking lot came by and helped me out of my situation. I finally made it home about two hours or so later. My old Mustang is a manual transmission, with all season. I usually was able to get around most of the time, got stuck a many times, and was usually able to rock it out, occasionally I would need a push, and this is the first year though with an automatic. Of course having to use the ladies room as badly and desperately as I had to and not being very picky about finding a better parking location and I think being as frantic as I was because of the need to go I believe did not help, because I am sure that I nailed it at first trying to get out to find somewhere else to go, and I just dug into the snow and ice pretty deep creating myself some ruts of my own. My poor skirt though.
The first few times getting stuck, and most of the time, I was the only one stuck it was pretty embarrassing, being the only one in a flat parking lot spinning your wheels, however over the years I have come to enjoy being stuck in the snow and ice, and that seems to happen every time it snows because there is an advantage to being an attractive female and that is a lot of cute guys show up to help you out. I cannot afford snow tires so I drive right now with the all seasons with me 2003 Mustang and summer tires on the 2006 Mustang that came with the car and you really are stuck with those.
I must say this night I was really not thinking straight by then seeing the club closed and having to desperately use the ladies room. You must know how you get frantic and panic, when in that situation I guess I just got stuck worse my trying to punch the gas instead of taking it slow and steady.