The U.S. is no angel or don't believe the hype.

[russ_watters]

well if it is so tight that it is clearly visable that is nothing but a real inefective propaganda campaign

Well if you prefer to see it that way, ok. I tend to think the government knows that a real propaganda campaign would be futile and doesn't try it.

 

[kyleb]

so your definition of "real" propaganda campaigns the "virtual" ones are all good eh? i mean this is the "virtual age" and all.

 

[amp]

Thanks Kyleb,

This one helps make my point:http://www.fair.org/activism/iraq-sources-networks.html
Russ, the networks don't have to be in lock step to achieve the same goals of dis/misinformation that would constitute propaganda. I was polled recently (telephone), first they wanted to know if I was a republican, then a conservative, then Bush supporter a 'no' to each question elicited a swift thank you and dial tone- I wonder who's views they wanted to poll?[?] And what the results of the poll would have shown.(DUH)

 

[BoulderHead]

What constitutes propaganda anyway, and would this dictionary.com definition suffice;

1) The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.

So when Bush repeatedly says; America is good, America is just, etc. Do you;

A) Consider it propaganda and/or brainwashing?
B) Consider it the gospel truth?

 

[amp]

No not that,

but I'm sure you know of other less savory quips. BTW, for those concerned not supporting the asinine policies of past and current administrations isn't un-american or un-patriotic, its a right (or was before the Patriot act).Oh, yeah that's an example Boulderhead - what was said and what it really does. (if you don't understand pick up any Mad magazine and read (Dave Berg I think)'What they say ,What they really mean'.

 

[russ_watters]

Boulder, you forgot C: his personal opinion.

Definitions are important here: Just because most of what we see on US media is pro-US doesn't make it propaganda. Along those lines, amp, to me that site does nothing to strenghten your claim. I never claimed the US media wasn't biased in favor of the US (shouldn't that be obvious?). EVERY country's media is biased in favor of that country. That is *NOT* propaganda. Propaganda requires an active DIS-information campaign and suppression of differing points of view. NEITHER exist in the US.

Also, amp, you don't know who was asking you those questions or why. You can't immediately assume it was a bad poll. It could simply have been the republican party seeking the opinion of republicans (for example).

It really seems like the opinions you guys hold are so weak that you see any differing opinion to be based on propaganda. Thats simply rediculous. MY opinion does NOT depend on the suppression of differing points of view and uncomfortable facts. You guys can't handle the fact that the vast majority of Americans really *DO* support this war (though of course that's largely a byproduct of latent patriotism rising up).

 

[amp]

Certainly Russ,

but(a big but) if( a big if) they purport that this is the view of the 'majority' of americans polled without explicitly stating the polling sample is exclusively consertative republicans... what do you think the majority of the viewing public would assume and what percentage do you think will hop on the bandwagon since that's what they believe most people think? Hmmm, I sure you will find fault with this site but peep it anyway, [URL]http://www.bushwatch.net/bushlies.htm[/URL]

an excerpt:"As always, the purpose of propaganda is to distract the public from the facts , which means denying that oil has anything to do with our intentions in Iraq. The administration has hammered away at this, with designated dove Colin Powell declaiming, "The oil of Iraq belongs to the people of Iraq..."
Also, check this one out:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/index.html

infamous members too.

 

[russ_watters]

but(a big but) if( a big if) they purport that this is the view of the 'majority' of americans polled without explicitly stating the polling sample is exclusively consertative republicans

Wow, amp, that's a MASSIVE assumption you are making based on exactly ZERO information.

I don't remember if it was this thread or not, but we GAVE you examples of what a "good" poll looks like. Clearly a good poll must list the question and the choice of answers as well as who was asked the question. If you read the polls on the public's stance on the war, they meet these criteria. The vast majority of americans (~70%) DO support the war. http://www.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/0330a.htm

 

[BoulderHead]

Russ,
Option C comes from contemplation of option A.

 

[iansmith]

Originally posted by russ_watters
Boulder, you forgot C: his personal opinion.

Definitions are important here: Just because most of what we see on US media is pro-US doesn't make it propaganda. Along those lines, amp, to me that site does nothing to strenghten your claim. I never claimed the US media wasn't biased in favor of the US (shouldn't that be obvious?). EVERY country's media is biased in favor of that country. That is *NOT* propaganda. Propaganda requires an active DIS-information campaign and suppression of differing points of view. NEITHER exist in the US.

I agree with you russ . Media are biass, and I saw the war coverage from the French, the french Canadians, Canadian and the US. Informations about the war is view in a different way.

I don't think the US media are doing propagandha but we should question the freedom of speech. Check this link out: http://media.guardian.co.uk/iraqandthemedia/story/0,12823,926553,00.html

If you think the US media are a pro-wr propagandha, then the french media are doing anti-war/american propagandha.

 

[amp]

Russ, a question...

does the poll at the site you gave say weather or not the sample was taken from a)a typical person off the street b)Conservative c)Republican d)Democrat e)Independent f)Bush sympathizer g)Bush opposer.
the way the poll looks its as if they polled were (b),(c),(f) another thing about the poll is this disclaimer at the end-In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls.