Theory on telepathy and telekinesis

[revan]

Hello! I'm new to the forums and I wasn't sure where to put this.

Recently I read in the news about the man in Russia found to exihibit telekinetic abilities, he was tested and tested by researchers, and they could find no 'convential' explanation as to why he could make a ball roll across a perfectly flat table while standing a few feet away. The conclusion was that he does indeed have a telekinetic ability, relatively weak but significant enough. On a television programme recently on 'near-death experiences' the issue was raised about the full functionality of the brain. We have extremely limited knowledge of how such an advanced 'machine' functions. However, it was claimed that the brain could have the ability to quantum super-position, be in two or more different places at the exact same moment in time.

It was claimed that this could account for the apparently infinite amount of data storage space that our brain possesses. It was also however claimed that the brain may posibly operate on the theoretical zero-point energy field. This allows the brain to project the mind or conciousness of the person across vast distances, and through any material. Notable examples of this are the twin telepathy phenomena, where one of a pair of identical twins is able to look at an object and the other situated far away is able to draw. It is also explains the inexplicable emotional connection the mothers seem to share with children, and long term pets seem to have with their owners.

Anyway, back to telekinesis. It was sugggested that all matter is merely floating in a 'sea' of zero point energy. If the brain was somehow able to manipulate these fields, then surely it would be able to move objects, just like u move a rubber dinghy in a swimming pool. This is just my theory on how these psychic phenomena occur. I definitely consider these things worthy of serious research, perhaps in a few generations time, with the increasing emphasis on intellectual development in children, perhaps these psychic phenomena will become more and more apparent.

Anyone else have any theories on how psychic phenomena may occur?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Welcome to PF revan.

Boy, you covered a lot of wild ideas in a hurry. The first order of business is to obtain convincing evidence of psychic phenomena as you describe. AFAIK, no such evidence exists. Given this fact, the rest is pure speculation with no basis for research. Anecdotal evidence is often interesting but it can't be used reliably. I also suspect that your sources are less than credible.

There is a lot of nonsense coming from Russia and other ex-Soviet states. The free press has run amok and all sorts of wild stories are the norm for now. If there is anything to these Russian claims then it will eventually be confirmed by other credible scientists. Since we don't see the world's press jumping all over the story, we can safely assume for now that the story is false.

 

[loseyourname]

I was very young when this episode aired and don't remember it well, but there was an episode of "Opera" that featured people being trained to move small metal balls that were situated about a foot away from them, simply by concentrating. I remember the explanation being something about the brain manipulating its own electromagnetic field, but as I said, it was a while ago so don't take my word for it (nor would I necessarily trust a man simply because he appeared on a TV show). If this is the case, it would seem to imply that any possible telekinetic power would be limited to the ability to effect a very slight movement in a ferrous object.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I always wonde when I see stories about psychic phenomena and the like but never hear anything else about it in follow up. I mostly just figure it was bogus but sometimes the stories are pretty convincing and make me wonder if maybe they just lost funding.
There's one in particular I have been wondering about that was featured in the Fortean Times. Someone was running expiriments involving the supposed psychic connection between twins. They took one twin and placed it in a room connected to a polygraph. The second twin was taken about and exposed to extreme stimulous such as dramatic explosions of confetti and so forth. They video taped both twins in both places with syncronized timers and found that the polygraph supposedly registered a response in the twin timed with the stimulous.

 

[Chronos]

Why would you assume that proved a relational response to any event observed by one or the other? Perhaps the brain wave patterns would be similar with, or without external stimuli.

 

[revan]

Still, is it not safe to say, that there are many many unexplained phenomena regarding the mind/brain/soul. I personally have always found the 'bad vibes' you sometimes experience in certain places. This odd sensation that something isn't quite right, or something bad has happened there. This most commonly happens in old buildings etc. , but sometimes it can occur for me in a street at a particular spot. If it is not simply imagination running amok, then I'd that when ever something horrible happens to a person, it leaves a mark in the fabric of the Universe, a kind of marker of the persons suffering. Suffienctly receptive people can feel these. It is for this reason that I am against building on the site of the WTC, I've visited Ground Zero and the experience was horrifying. I think it is a serious mistake to build on it anything but a memorial and a garden.

 

[poolwin2001]

As for WTC,you know most of america was wildlands a couple of centuries ago,there was hunting and killing prevalant.Maybe they place you live may have been slaughtering place of some tribe of indians by the settlers.Going even back animals had been killing and hunting each other many million years before you were born.
So this WTC thing is BS.

 

[No-where-man]

Welcome to PF revan.

Boy, you covered a lot of wild ideas in a hurry. The first order of business is to obtain convincing evidence of psychic phenomena as you describe. AFAIK, no such evidence exists. Given this fact, the rest is pure speculation with no basis for research. Anecdotal evidence is often interesting but it can't be used reliably. I also suspect that your sources are less than credible.

There is a lot of nonsense coming from Russia and other ex-Soviet states. The free press has run amok and all sorts of wild stories are the norm for now. If there is anything to these Russian claims then it will eventually be confirmed by other credible scientists. Since we don't see the world's press jumping all over the story, we can safely assume for now that the story is false.

Hey,Ivan,what evidence would convince you that such phenomenons exist?
I'm also an truly extreme sceptic about these things,since almost all of the mediums have been proven to be highlya adpet frauds,there are so many ways that coul make us foolish...

 

[revan]

I'm sorry poolwin if you can't read, but I said when something terrible happens to people. I don't mean your run to the mill shoot-bang murder, I mean when the person or people are in true terror, it is at this point I believe that this imprinting occurs. It does not apply to animals, as they do not have intelligent conscious thought like humans do, did you know that poolwin?? I think anyone who does not believe in telepathy, telekinesis and the like, or at least the possibility of it is an idiot. Or very very arrogant to believe that they have the ability to command the full power of their brain. On the bad vibes thing, try visiting Auschwitz and not feeling disturbed by the place.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Why would you assume that proved a relational response to any event observed by one or the other? Perhaps the brain wave patterns would be similar with, or without external stimuli.

A polygraph is an instrument that simultaneously records changes in physiological processes such as heartbeat, blood pressure, and respiration. The polygraph is used as a lie detector by police departments, the FBI, the CIA, federal and state governments, and numerous private agencies. The underlying theory of the polygraph is that when people lie they also get measurably nervous about lying. The heartbeat increases, blood pressure goes up, breathing rhythms change, perspiration increases, etc. A baseline for these physiological characteristics is established by asking the subject questions whose answers the investigator knows. Deviation from the baseline for truthfulness is taken as sign of lying.

http://skepdic.com/polygrap.html

Polygraphs don't detect brain waves. The description above should give you an idea why they used it the way they did.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

http://www.dprogram.com/twin_telepathy.html

Here's an article on the expiriment.

 

[matthyaouw]

On the bad vibes thing, try visiting Auschwitz and not feeling disturbed by the place.

I'd have to put that and the world trade centre thing down to your prior knowledge of what happened. I don't doubt that standing on a spot where thousands died horribly would send a chill down my spine if I knew about it before I got there, but the question is would it have such an affect if I was completely oblivious?

 

[poolwin2001]

I'm sorry poolwin if you can't read, but I said when something terrible happens to people. I don't mean your run to the mill shoot-bang murder, I mean when the person or people are in true terror, it is at this point I believe that this imprinting occurs. It does not apply to animals, as they do not have intelligent conscious thought like humans do, did you know that poolwin?? I think anyone who does not believe in telepathy, telekinesis and the like, or at least the possibility of it is an idiot. Or very very arrogant to believe that they have the ability to command the full power of their brain. On the bad vibes thing, try visiting Auschwitz and not feeling disturbed by the place.

What about the red indians or the neandrethals or ancient men and all that.If you didn't know about WTC accident(and emotionally affected by it),you won't feel a thing.

 

[Vast]

http://www.dprogram.com/twin_telepathy.html

Here's an article on the expiriment.

The experiment they did in that article you gave, seems like a fairly simple experiment! Wouldn’t require much funding. I guess you’d have to get a hold of some twins, and they would of course need to be twins that had a belief that they were telepathic.

My question is, if telepathy is so easy to test, why hasn’t it become a well known fact by now?

 

[Dayle Record]

Has anyone figured out how those schools of cod move in unison as they do? Is it a common electrical current, or a neuro imprint? I think there is some common large field in species like cod, or starlings for that matter. I was in a parking lot, in the center of a large valley. Something caught my eye, to the east in front of the mountains many miles away. 10 miles or so, and way aloft. I stopped because it had been something really odd. I stood and just waited looking to the east, when three large forms appeared out of nowhere against the sky. They were somewhat shaped like 0 + 0 but huge, say 1/2 mile across each of them. They then vanished. I spoke to a woman nearby, and said "You've got to see this!", she said "What?" I said, "Just a sec, and you will see what I mean." Within a count of 5 the forms reappeared, and she yelled involuntarily. I said, "I mean, isn't that the strangest thing?" We were just laughing, they were huge flights of starlings. They were so in synch that they were turning sideways three groups 1/2 mile wide each, that they would all disappear, and reappear in seconds. When they disappeared, it was total; the reappearance was total and this continued until we went on our separate ways. They had the unity of a large solid object with planar properties that rendered them invisible in rotation. There were millions of those birds all doing the same thing, in the same medium, in the same way, with enormous synchronicity. Many factors contribute to the performance, perhaps even, a common field of energy.

 

[Vast]

You see the same thing with pigeons, but I would think it was follow the leader in flocks of birds, not quite sure it works the same way with schools of fish, but
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/fish.html a little information about it, and apparently it isn’t perfect unison, just a combination of vision, smell and a line of sensors along side their bodies. I’m sure species can evolve much faster synchronistic behaviors.

But this is far removed from telepathic communication.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

The experiment they did in that article you gave, seems like a fairly simple experiment! Wouldn’t require much funding. I guess you’d have to get a hold of some twins, and they would of course need to be twins that had a belief that they were telepathic.

My question is, if telepathy is so easy to test, why hasn’t it become a well known fact by now?

It does seem like it would be relatively simple which makes me wonder.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Hey,Ivan,what evidence would convince you that such phenomenons exist?
I'm also an truly extreme sceptic about these things,since almost all of the mediums have been proven to be highlya adpet frauds,there are so many ways that coul make us foolish...

Any significant and repeatable phenomenon that can be observed under laboratory conditions should be easy to identify as credible. For phenomena that may be "hidden beneath the noise" or that might be affected by factors that we don't understand, I think better experiments may lead to more reliable results. For random and transient phenomenon, often it seems that we can only hope for proof on a case by case basis. Sometimes it is difficult to even imagine what would serve as proof. Voice, video, and sensor data, eyewitness testimony, physical affects on real objects, what is beyond reasonable doubt? If extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, what evidence would be extraordinary? That is a tough problem. Often I have no idea; even if we assume that claim X is completely true.

btw, welcome to PF No-where-man.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I think one hopeful prospect for the verification [or not] of some phenomena is the ability to discern truth from lies by using technology. There has been much work in lie detection. Many cases of paranormal claims leave little room for prosaic explanations if the witness is honest.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Lie detectors can be beaten from what I understand and even then you would likely have plenty of people saying that the subjects passed the lie detector test because they believe what they saw but that it doesn't make it true.

 

[Dayle Record]

Maybe telepathy is the ability to communicate with all those parallel universes, and be in many of them, moment to moment, inhabiting many timelines in bits and pieces or brief visitations. Telepathy, and intuition can't be proven here, because of Schrodinger's dead cat, being elsewhere.

 

[TheAntiRelative]

The fish thing that was brought up was interesting, though when I scanned through that link I missed any evidence for or against the type of communication used.

There actually is a possible explanation of telepathy that isn't nearly as far-fetched as most explanations.

It was first noticed because of sharks digging up power/telephone cables from the ocean shore and attacking them. It was discovered that part of the way in which sharks hunt is by detecting the EM radiation given off by the brains of their prey.

Some of the first experiments with detecting and interpretting the EM given off by the human brain was some time during the 80s I believe. The simplest form that was first demo'd was a skier on a slope game. A person could place some fingers on a sensor pad and concentrate on left or right and get some minimal (and unrelaiable) corresponding movement.

Since then the military has actually picked it up and have tried using headbands that are somewhat similar to a pared down EEG to have pilots navigate through rings in a simulator.

While the technology has not reached a relaible enough state to be widely used since last time I checked, it still shows that thought is broadcast via EMR to a limited extent.

How would anyone sense it and interpret it? Well it just so happens that you arlead have a pair of organs that sense and interpret a specific range of EM radiation. Your eyes. (in conjunction with your brain)

Though it is a bit of a leap, I could see how it does not lay outside the realm of possibility that some of the parts of our brain that are not fully understood could have, at one time, evolved as a limited communication device. I could also see how the inception of speech, a far more useful tool for survival, would have made that trait no longer a significant part of natural selection.


EDIT: Additionally, from all I've heard, lie detectors just work off of pulse rate, regularity of breathing, blood pressure and skin temperatures. Nothing with the brain that I remember

 

[Vast]

Hi TheAntiRelative.

I believe this is a very good physics question. While it is true that electrical signals in the brain can be measured, how strong or weak are they? I think I recall a machine used to measure the EM signals in the brain, built in such a way as to shield the background noise such as traffic and everything else in our environment, and they were found to be extremely weak signals, in effect, everything else in the environment would drown out the signals produced by our brains. If anyone knows anything about signals emitted by the brain, can you please post something about it?

Now all those experiments that were done, involved some sort of sensor attached to the persons skin. As far as I know, the brain doesn’t emit and receive signals like an antenna. It does however emit and receive signals from nearby brain cells, but what you’re suggesting here, as in the brain evolving to suppress a function in the brain for telepathic communication, in favor of speech, is really a stab in the dark IMO.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/k/kirlian_photography.html

I've been meaning to look into Kirlian Photography to figure out if it's bunk or not. I don't have time now but this is one of the sites I found that doesn't seem to be trying to promote it but just discuss it.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-05/i-files.html

Damn CSICOP! ;-p

 

[loseyourname]

Has anybody ever looked into the claims of Edgar Cayce? Supposedly he is able to diagnose illness and recommend working courses of treatment by remote viewing. Can't a group of doctors give him patients to diagnose and verify his accuracy?

http://www.edgarcayce.org/

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It he was still alive... Since not, we will have to ask John Edwards what he has to say!

He has tons of predictions documented. How accurate they may be I'm not sure since I've never really examined the evidence for better than luck odds [how credible may they be as well?], but he did allegedly predict the date of his own death.

 

[TheAntiRelative]

Vast:

Stab in the dark? Uh, yeah that about sums it up... lol

But that is usually the starting place. Take a stab and prove it wrong. I'm not saying this is what truly is, I'm only saying thatthere are explanations for telepathy that do not lie in the realm of superstition and magic. I was providing a plausible explanation for why it would not persist and become more prevalent that agrees with other evolutionary developments.

On the noise thing: Sharks might only use that sense to find large groups and switch to visual for individual targets. (I don't think so) And in the ocean you are far less likely to have the number and strengths of numerous other EM signals. However, I think it would be more like tuning to a radio station. Just because there are 80 bazillion cell phone signals and satellite transmissions and TV stations and even right down to other radio stations, it doesn't mean that you can't receive the signal.

 

[leone]

Well, a lot of things reach further in water. E.G. Sound, vibration, etc. Is it possible that EM signals can travel further, or just coincidence?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

...Anyone else have any theories on how psychic phenomena may occur?

This thread is over three years old and no longer acceptable in any forum. We don't discuss theories, personal or otherwise, that seek to explain phenomena not proven to exist.