Thermodynamics problem -- Pressure oscillations in a jar

In summary: So, ##x=dV/A##, because if we divide by A, we get ##x=dV/A##, which is the change in volume divided by the area of the ball.In summary, the conversation discusses the correct way to write the equation for force in terms of vectors and scalars. It is correct to write ##\vec{F}=-kx\vec{i}##, but not correct to write ##F=-kx## since the minus sign indicates opposite directions. The conversation also explores the expansion of ##(1+x)^n## for small x, leading to the conclusion that ##V_2=V_0+Ax## and ##x=dV/A##. Additionally, it discusses the relation
  • #1
LagrangeEuler
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I add a Figure with the problem and solution. I have difficulty with a solution to the given problem. Why ##F=-kx=Adp##, I do not understand minus sign because we are working with scalars not vectors. It is correct to say that
##\vec{F}=-kx\vec{i}##, but is not correct to say that ##F=-kx##. Can you explain to me this part?
 

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  • #2
LagrangeEuler said:
It is correct to say that ##\vec{F}=-kx\vec{i}##, but is not correct to say that ##F=-kx##. Can you explain to me this part?
I would prefer ##\ \vec F = - k\vec x\ ##. The minus sign indicates that the directions are opposite. For motion along a straight line one can dispose of the vector character, but the minus sign stays:$$
\vec F = - k\vec x \Leftrightarrow F \hat \imath = - k x\hat \imath\quad \Rightarrow \quad F = - k x $$
 
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  • #3
Is it correct to write
[tex](p_0+\frac{mg}{A})V_0^{\gamma}=p_2(V_0-Ax)^{\gamma}[/tex]?
From that
[tex]p_2=\frac{(p_0+\frac{mg}{A})V_0^{\gamma}}{(V_0-Ax)^{\gamma}}[/tex]
and
[tex]p_2=\frac{p_0+\frac{mg}{A}}{(1-\frac{Ax}{V_0})^{\gamma}}[/tex]
Can we assume here that ##x## is very small so that
[tex](1+x)^n \approx 1+nx [/tex]?
From that
[tex]p_2=\frac{p_0+\frac{mg}{A}}{1-\frac{\gamma A x}{V_0}}[/tex]
 
  • #4
LagrangeEuler said:
Is it correct to write
[tex](p_0+\frac{mg}{A})V_0^{\gamma}=p_2(V_0-Ax)^{\gamma}\ \ ?[/tex]
Your book says ##\ x = dV/A\ ## so it chooses a coordinate system with upwards as positive x-direction.
So I would write ##V_2 = V_0 + Ax##. Other than that: yes.

One small thing: x can be many ##\mu##m, however. What you mean is ##\displaystyle {{Ax\over V}<< 1}\ ##.

From your last expression (sign corrected) : $$p_2 = \left (p_0+\frac{mg}{A}\right )\ \left (1 - \frac{\gamma A^2 x}{V_0}\right )\quad \Rightarrow \quad \Delta F = p_2A-p_1A=-\frac{\gamma A^2 }{V_0}\left (p_0+\frac{mg}{A}\right )\,x$$

##\ ##
 
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  • #5
LagrangeEuler said:
Is it correct to write
[tex](p_0+\frac{mg}{A})V_0^{\gamma}=p_2(V_0-Ax)^{\gamma}[/tex]?
From that
[tex]p_2=\frac{(p_0+\frac{mg}{A})V_0^{\gamma}}{(V_0-Ax)^{\gamma}}[/tex]
and
[tex]p_2=\frac{p_0+\frac{mg}{A}}{(1-\frac{Ax}{V_0})^{\gamma}}[/tex]
Can we assume here that ##x## is very small so that
[tex](1+x)^n \approx 1+nx [/tex]?
From that
[tex]p_2=\frac{p_0+\frac{mg}{A}}{1-\frac{\gamma A x}{V_0}}[/tex]
I like what you did here. But, now you can take it one step further by continuing the expansion for small x: $$p_2=(p_0+\frac{mg}{A})+(p_0+\frac{mg}{A})\frac{\gamma A x}{V_0}$$So, $$\Delta p=(p_0+\frac{mg}{A})\frac{\gamma A x}{V_0}$$So the net upward force on the ball is $$F=A\Delta p=(p_0+\frac{mg}{A})\frac{\gamma A^2 }{V_0}x$$where x is the downward displacement.
 
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  • #6
BvU said:
Your book says ##\ x = dV/A\ ## so it chooses a coordinate system with upwards as positive x-direction.
So I would write ##V_2 = V_0 + Ax##. Other than that: yes.

One small thing: x can be many ##\mu##m, however. What you mean is ##\displaystyle {{Ax\over V}<< 1}\ ##.

From your last expression (sign corrected) : $$p_2 = \left (p_0+\frac{mg}{A}\right )\ \left (1 - \frac{\gamma A^2 x}{V_0}\right )\quad \Rightarrow \quad \Delta F = p_2A-p_1A=-\frac{\gamma A^2 }{V_0}\left (p_0+\frac{mg}{A}\right )\,x$$

##\ ##
Thanks a lot. Could you just explain me better part ##V_0-Ax## ##\rightarrow## ##V_0+Ax##? I have problem to understand why ##V_2=V_0+Ax## and relation of this and ##x=dV/A##.
 
  • #7
The Taylor series expansion for ##\frac{1}{1-\frac{\gamma Ax}{V_0}}## is ##\left(1+\frac{\gamma Ax}{V_0}+...\right)##

To linear terms in x, this is $$\frac{1}{1-\frac{\gamma Ax}{V_0}}\approx \left(1+\frac{\gamma Ax}{V_0}\right)$$
 
  • #8
LagrangeEuler said:
Thanks a lot. Could you just explain me better part ##V_0-Ax## ##\rightarrow## ##V_0+Ax##? I have problem to understand why ##V_2=V_0+Ax## and relation of this and ##x=dV/A##.
If the ball moves up by a distance ##x##, the volume increases by ##Ax\ ##, that's all :smile: !
 
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FAQ: Thermodynamics problem -- Pressure oscillations in a jar

What is thermodynamics and why is it important?

Thermodynamics is a branch of physics that deals with the study of heat, energy, and their relationship to work. It is important because it helps us understand how energy is converted from one form to another, and how it affects the behavior of matter.

What are pressure oscillations in a jar?

Pressure oscillations in a jar refer to the fluctuation of pressure inside a closed container, such as a jar, due to changes in temperature or volume. These oscillations can occur naturally or be induced by external factors, and can have a significant impact on the contents of the jar.

How do pressure oscillations in a jar occur?

Pressure oscillations in a jar occur due to the laws of thermodynamics, specifically the ideal gas law. When the temperature or volume of a gas in a closed container changes, the pressure also changes. This leads to oscillations as the gas tries to reach equilibrium with its surroundings.

What are the effects of pressure oscillations in a jar?

The effects of pressure oscillations in a jar can vary depending on the contents of the jar. In some cases, it can cause the jar to explode or implode due to the sudden change in pressure. It can also affect the chemical reactions or physical properties of the substances inside the jar.

How can pressure oscillations in a jar be controlled?

Pressure oscillations in a jar can be controlled by adjusting the temperature or volume of the gas inside the jar. This can be done by using a pressure regulator or by carefully monitoring and adjusting the external factors that can influence the pressure, such as temperature changes or vibrations.

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