They are listed as Greek when they aren't really Greek

[Chi Meson]

Hi Evo

Now you would deprive Euclid of his greatness, genius and claim all the work he is known for to earlier Greeks.

That is not so. All the work that Euclid did is credit to Euclid, not to Greeks nor to Egyptians. He was in Alexandria because that was the hub of knowlendge for centuries where the great minds of Europe, Asia, and Africa came together.

It is a naive argument and I hear it from time to time. When they talk about the Arabs, they say they, the Arabs, didn't do anything new they merely catalogued the already discovered knowledge of the Greeks.

Now who is saying that? The claim that there is no significant Arabian contribution to mathematics is absurd! Everyone in the world now uses "Arabic" numerals and studies Algebra ("al-jabr"). Diophantus (another Greek Alexandrian) improved the Algebra of the Arabic scholars, who in turn picked up and improved the mathematics of India.

But this really has nothing to do with classifying Euclid or Heron or Diophantus a "Greek" or "Egyptian."

We can avoid all of this by calling them all "Alexandrians." Labeling them as "Greek Alexandrians" does little more than tell you which language they spoke and how they dressed while they were there.

 

[jackson6612]

We can avoid all of this by calling them all "Alexandrians."

Hi Meson

I would go with your suggestion. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Danger]

If you show up for synagogue service some Saturday morning you may be asked if you are Jewish and if you answer yes, be offered an opportunity to say a blessing over a portion of the Torah reading. No one will check your credentials nor are there any be be had.

So you're basically a Unitarian with a funny hat?

I agree with Chi for his last post. Euclid, Aristotle, Ptolemy, whoever... it doesn't matter whether Copernicus was Italian or Korean or Norweedish; the contributions came from within him.
This might be in error, since I have no formal education, but I was under the impression that Persia (Iran on current maps) was the seat of all mathematics. Wasn't it them who came up with the concept of "zero", the lack of which might have had something to do with the fall of the Roman Empire? (Face it; you can't accurately aim artillery without it. And how did they even keep score during the Christian/lion contests?)

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

So you're basically a Unitarian with a funny hat?

In that we believe in no more than one deity, yes.

 

[Evo]

I think, perhaps, what jackson doesn't understand is that there is "Greek Mathematics", just as there is "Greek Philosophy" and Euclid is considered a Greek mathematician, it does not matter where he was born.

Perhaps this will help him understand why they are referred to as Greek.

Basic facts about the origin of Greek civilization and its mathematics.

The best estimate is that the Greek civilization dates back to 2800 B.C. -- just about the time of the construction of the great pyramids in Egypt. The Greeks settled in Asia Minor, possibly their original home, in the area of modern Greece, and in southern Italy, Sicily, Crete, Rhodes, Delos, and North Africa.

About 775 B.C. they changed from a hieroglyphic writing to the Phoenician alphabet. This allowed them to become more literate, or at least more facile in their ability to express conceptual thought.

The ancient Greek civilization lasted until about 600 B.C.

The Egyptian and Babylonian influence was greatest in Miletus, a city of Ionia in Asia Minor and the birthplace of Greek philosophy, mathematics and science.

From the viewpoint of its mathematics, it is best to distinguish between the two periods: the classical period from about 600 B.C. to 300 B.C. and the Alexandrian or Hellenistic period from 300 B.C. to 300 A.D. Indeed, from about 350 B.C. the center of mathematics moved from Athens to Alexandria (in Egypt), the city built by Alexander the Great (358 -323 B.C.). It remained the center of mathematics for a millennium until the library was sacked by the Muslims in about 700 A.D.

http://www.math.tamu.edu/~dallen/history/greekorg/greekorg.html

Euclid is a Greek Mathematician. Doesn't matter where he was born or lived or died.

 

[turbo]

Country/region of origin isn't as important as the tradition in which the scientists/philosophers worked. The Mediterranean was not a real static environment in a nationalistic sense. It has been mentioned that Greece was a collection of city-states. It should also be mentioned that apart from the period of the Roman Empire when the empire was ascendant, Italy was often a collection of city-states.

Alexandria was like today's CERN, attracting the best and the brightest.

 

[Danger]

apart from the period of the Roman Empire when the empire was ascendant, Italy was often a collection of city-states.

Oh crap... you and I are probably the only ones here who actually remember when Venice was a country.

 

[turbo]

Oh crap... you and I are probably the only ones here who actually remember when Venice was a country.

And all the bankers were from Florence.

 

[Gokul43201]

This might be in error, since I have no formal education, but I was under the impression that Persia (Iran on current maps) was the seat of all mathematics. Wasn't it them who came up with the concept of "zero", the lack of which might have had something to do with the fall of the Roman Empire? (Face it; you can't accurately aim artillery without it. And how did they even keep score during the Christian/lion contests?)

The invention of zero as a number (and more than just a place holder) is usually attributed to ancient India. While the Greeks seemed to spend an eternity pondering whether "nothing" could be "something" (to quote the wiki entry), it seems the Indians were more than happy to shut up and calculate!

 

[Danger]

The invention of zero as a number (and more than just a place holder) is usually attributed to ancient India.

Thanks for the clarification, Gokul. I knew that it was somewhere on the opposite side of the planet and a couple of years before I was born, but the details eluded me.

 

[jackson6612]

I think, perhaps, what jackson doesn't understand is that there is "Greek Mathematics", just as there is "Greek Philosophy" and Euclid is considered a Greek mathematician, it does not matter where he was born.

Perhaps this will help him understand why they are referred to as Greek.

http://www.math.tamu.edu/~dallen/history/greekorg/greekorg.html

Euclid is a Greek Mathematician. Doesn't matter where he was born or lived or died.

Hi Evo

Thanks for all the valuable comments. How would define 'Greek Mathematics'? How would you define 'Indian Mathematics'? How would you define 'Different Schools of Greek Mathematics'?

I would say 'Greek Mathematics' is a term to define the ideas discovered or popular in Greece, or its colonies at that time, the same kind of language used to present those ideas, etc. There is no 'Greek Mathematics', per se. Science doesn't carry any flag. A circle looks the same way to everyone and it always has the same properties. The language and its ability to express mathematical ideas could differ, e.g. Hindu/Arabic numerals was more fluent system, concept of zero revolutionized many new ideas in mathematics, and the others. The development and ability of human mind to recognize and understand the mathematical ideas and patterns greatly affect its progress, the discovery or invention of zero is one example.

The term 'School' here is used both in the sense of an institution and of set of ideas. Pythagoras ordered the drowning of one of his students after he proved that square root of 2 is not a rational number. It was against Pythagoras' mathematical ideas, his school of thought. His school is called Pythagoreanism. If I happen to incidentally follow some of Plato's philosophy, then you could not simply call me a Neoplatonist. It's just that he had been born before me and happened to think the same way as I did. The formula for Pi discovered by Leibniz had already been discovered centuries before by an Indian named Madhava. I wouldn't say that the formula is part of 'Indian Mathematics', I would say its discoverer was an Indian. If Madhava had used mathematical concepts and language popular in Russia, I would say he was following 'Russian School of Mathematics'. I wouldn't call him a Russian mathematician, though. Even the famous Pythagoras theorem was known to Babylonians and Indians.

Perhaps, you can correct me.

Best wishes
Jack