They used to use uranium glaze to color pottery and other objects

[Kutt]

Before nuclear elements had any practical applications, they were used as an orange coloring glaze for pottery and various other objects.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but wouldn't this coloring glaze be highly radioactive?

 

[gmax137]

Before nuclear elements had any practical applications, it was used as an orange coloring glaze for pottery and various other objects.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but wouldn't this coloring glaze be highly radioactive?

Highly radioactive? No. Uranium has a very long half life, which means it is only slightly active.

 

[clancy688]

And U-238's decay is alpha, therefore the very little radiation which's produced won't be able to harm you (unless you inhale parts of the pottery...).

 

[SteamKing]

Only if it glows in the dark.

 

[jim mcnamara]

Up until 30 years ago, the porcelain in false teeth contained uranium salts:

http://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q2215.html

 

[QuantumPion]

The radiation dose received from uranium oxide glazed pottery is about the same as the dose received from living or working in a building made of brick or concrete.

 

[jim hardy]

Indeed some of that old tableware is active.
We used to keep some in the training department at the nuke plant where I worked, for introductory classes in radiation safety. It makes a Geiger counter sound scary and is a good starter for the lecture for it wakes the class up..
But as somebody pointed out it's not very penetrating radiation. So don't worry about your antique china in the display cabinet.

My father in law was a ceramic engineer. He cautioned us about some of the very old blue glazes, said they could leach significant cobalt into your food.

Myself , I use modern tableware because of what's been learned since the 1930's.
Dad's old prewar chemistry book said of element Uranium:
"... sometimes used as colorant in ceramics. The metal has no practical use."

I framed a copy of that page and hung it above my desk in the nuke plant.

old jim

 

[Kutt]

Certain types of granite contain many different kinds of nuclear elements and can give off levels of radiation that are many times higher than normal background readings, such as this video shows.



300 cpm and almost 1 msv/h were the highest readings for this granite kitchen sink. The uranium-glazed pottery has nothing on this granite kitchen counter top in terms of radioactivity.

 

[etudiant]

Uranium was used for ceramics and for glassware, to provide color.
I still have some old wine stems with a orange hue from the uranium salts used.
Marie Curie extracted radium from the tailings of the Czech uranium mines. That waste product was cheap enough for her to buy and still held the radioactives she sought.

 

[SteamKing]

Radium used to be painted on watch and clock faces so that they could be read in the dark. The clock and watch factories where this was done became increasingly 'hot' over time.

One time, I saw an old advertisement for a toothpaste which contained a small amount of thorium in its ingredients. Of course, this was pre-Hiroshima and the dangers of radioactivity were not as well known.

 

[nikkkom]

Check this out:

 

[Kutt]

Radium used to be painted on watch and clock faces so that they could be read in the dark. The clock and watch factories where this was done became increasingly 'hot' over time.

One time, I saw an old advertisement for a toothpaste which contained a small amount of thorium in its ingredients. Of course, this was pre-Hiroshima and the dangers of radioactivity were not as well known.

Before WW2 and the dawn of the "nuclear era" most people were woefully uniformed about the dangers of radiation. Back then, radiation-producing ingredients were frequently included in retail products that would have been outright banned by today's standards.

 

[etudiant]

Before WW2 and the dawn of the "nuclear era" most people were woefully uniformed about the dangers of radiation. Back then, radiation-producing ingredients were frequently included in retail products that would have been outright banned by today's standards.

If you look back at this, there were some really nightmarish cases of young women hired to paint radium dials who died from mouth cancers. They were moistening the brushes with their lips to paint the fine lines.

 

[Kutt]

If you look back at this, there were some really nightmarish cases of young women hired to paint radium dials who died from mouth cancers. They were moistening the brushes with their lips to paint the fine lines.

Back then, did they teach anything about radiation in elementary and high school science classes? How many people even knew what radiation was?

 

[ImaLooser]

If you look back at this, there were some really nightmarish cases of young women hired to paint radium dials who died from mouth cancers. They were moistening the brushes with their lips to paint the fine lines.

At the Manhattan project they had a ball of plutonium that they handed to guests. It was radioactive enough to be warm to the touch.

 

[etudiant]

At the Manhattan project they had a ball of plutonium that they handed to guests. It was radioactive enough to be warm to the touch.

Reportedly they handed one to Stalin, who was suspicious and wanted to be sure that the scientists were not just fooling him. A spontaneously warm metal lump in sunny Moscow was pretty persuasive evidence to him that the researchers were doing something out of the ordinary.

 

[etudiant]

Back then, did they teach anything about radiation in elementary and high school science classes? How many people even knew what radiation was?

Not many had any sense of risk. Even the Curies were initially incredibly casual about the radiation exposure. There is another 1920s case of a man who sold radioactive soft drinks as a healthy refresher, sort of a nuclear Gatorade. He eventually also died an ugly death from his elixir, which he had great faith in.

 

[Kutt]

At the Manhattan project they had a ball of plutonium that they handed to guests. It was radioactive enough to be warm to the touch.

Was this the plutonium warhead core of an atomic bomb?

I'm guessing it was probably radioactive enough to make you very ill within 15-30 minutes of exposure. Plutonium is the most toxic and dangerous substance known to man. I'm sure that the Manhattan project scientists were well aware of this risk.

 

[jim hardy]

Plutonium is the most toxic and dangerous substance known to man. I'm sure that the Manhattan project scientists were well aware of this risk.

That often heard statement is tripe circulated by activists who want to appear impressively knowledgeable.

Manhattan project machinists who fabricated the bomb parts, as well as scientists who worked with the stuff, were monitored for decades after the war.
By 1997 the only unnatural death was from a car crash.

Over the years, there have been a
few other studies on Los Alamos workers
exposed to plutonium, but most of
them are smaller in scope. Published
in 1983, one such study by Voelz et al.
was conducted on 224 males exposed to
plutonium between 1944 and 1974.
Their plutonium deposition was greater
than 0.16 microgram, or 0.01 microcurie.
None of the people involved in this
study developed bone or liver cancer,
and by 1980, the final year of the study,
only one person had died of lung cancer.
This study did not confirm earlier
opinions of some nuclear-industry
critics who predicted a very high risk
for lung cancer at low plutonium doses.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/lanl/pubs/00818013.pdf

again, please don't spout propaganda as fact.

 

[clancy688]

Plutonium is the most toxic and dangerous substance known to man. I'm sure that the Manhattan project scientists were well aware of this risk.

Although I'm not sure about the "most" part of your statement, Plutonium is indeed very toxic and therefore dangerous. Inside the body. Unless I'm mistaken, nuclear warheads are normally stored outside the human body.

As long as the scientists don't start eating the core, there'll nothing happen to their health. Even if they take the thing to bed every night.

 

[Argentum Vulpes]

...
I'm guessing it was probably radioactive enough to make you very ill within 15-30 minutes of exposure. Plutonium is the most toxic and dangerous substance known to man. I'm sure that the Manhattan project scientists were well aware of this risk.

I love when I hear this argument about every two years.

Heres the deal Kutt I'll swallow half of a gram of plutonium and you can have a tenth of gram of cyanide (one fifth of what I just knocked back). I may have several years knocked off of my life expectancy due to a cancer in my GI tract, but I'm going to be alive long enough to goto your funeral, and see my children grow up, and my grandchildren, and who knows if medical science advances enough in the next 50 years my great grandchildren.

To Clancy688 with plutonium in the body I'd be more worried about heavy metal poisoning, or if the plutonium were powdered I'd be worried about inhaling it and having a heavy metal in my lungs, and on a less worry some vector having an alpha emitter in my lungs.

 

[nikkkom]

Although I'm not sure about the "most" part of your statement, Plutonium is indeed very toxic and therefore dangerous. Inside the body. Unless I'm mistaken, nuclear warheads are normally stored outside the human body.

As long as the scientists don't start eating the core, there'll nothing happen to their health. Even if they take the thing to bed every night.

Also, I believe nuclear cores are usually electroplated with a layer of stable, non-corroding and non-toxic metal.

 

[Kutt]

Much like holding a handful of fuel pellets, I'm assuming that holding a ball of raw nuclear material that is radioactive enough to be warm to the touch is bad for ones health.

This is why human handling of nuclear fuel (such as at a fuel processing plant) is done through very thick glass and with lead-insulated gloves.

 

[clancy688]

I'm assuming that holding a ball of raw nuclear material that is radioactive enough to be warm to the touch is bad for ones health.

You have to differ.

Plutonium is alpha decay. Alpha radiation is very powerful, but at the same time has only very little penetration ability. So little that it is stopped by the uppermost boundary of human skin - which consists mostly of dead cells.

Therefore you don't need any lead glass or special gloves when handling plutonium since its radiation can't penetrate your body deep enough to do damage.

It's an entirely different matter when this stuff is inside your body, though. There was a guy called Litwinenko. Google him. He was poisened with Polonium-210, which emits alpha radiation just like Plutonium.

 

[Argentum Vulpes]

You have to differ.

Plutonium is alpha decay. Alpha radiation is very powerful, but at the same time has only very little penetration ability. So little that it is stopped by the uppermost boundary of human skin - which consists mostly of dead cells.

Therefore you don't need any lead glass or special gloves when handling plutonium since its radiation can't penetrate your body deep enough to do damage.

It's an entirely different matter when this stuff is inside your body, though. There was a guy called Litwinenko. Google him. He was poisened with Polonium-210, which emits alpha radiation just like Plutonium.

Now let's be fair here. Yes both Polonium 210 and Plutonium 239 are alpha emitters. However Polonium is an alpha fire hose, it has an approximate half life of 138 days. Where as Plutonium is more like a dripping faucet of alpha emitters, 24k years.

And yes half life dose matter, the shorter the half life (hours, days, three digit years) elements are going to be more dangerous due to a much more energetic life.

 

[jim hardy]

Much like holding a handful of fuel pellets, I'm assuming that holding a ball of raw nuclear material that is radioactive enough to be warm to the touch is bad for ones health.

This is why human handling of nuclear fuel (such as at a fuel processing plant) is done through very thick glass and with lead-insulated gloves.

Kutt, you're just a wealth of misinformation.

I toured a fuel pelletizing plant south of St Louis.
The fuel comes in as gas in cylinders and leaves as small green pellets that look like rabbit food.
The automated machinery is reminiscent of cigarette manufacturing equipment.
You can stand right beside it and watch the pellets go by on little conveyor belts.
Nice ladies carry trays of it where it needs to go, wearing thin gloves just like in a cafeteria.
As visitors we were not allowed to handle it, it was after all 'snm' and you don't want to get fingerprints on it.

The equipment you describe is for handling high level radioactive waste not new fuel.

Fuel is shipped to the power plant on flatbed trucks driven by regular truck drivers over regular highways. They stop for lunch at regular truck stops.

When we take it from the truck we wear gloves of thin cotton, again so as to not get fingerprints on it.
New fuel is barely (if at all) radioactive and I have stood amidst tons of it in our new fuel storage room.

Please spend some time educating yourself.
And quit trying to scare people.

old jim

 

[Astronuc]

This is why human handling of nuclear fuel (such as at a fuel processing plant) is done through very thick glass and with lead-insulated gloves.

Um - no. I've handled fuel pellets at a number of fabrication plants. One uses a thin glove, latex or alternative. At a reprocessing plant, the MOX or reprocessed fuel is handled remotely, certainly with operators shielded.

I toured a fuel pelletizing plant south of St Louis.

I've been there a couple of times.

UF₆ is a solid at room/transportation temperature. The container is heated to about 125°C in a steam chest. The gas is hydrolyzed in a solution (wet process) or steam (dry process).

 

[Argentum Vulpes]

I toured a fuel pelletizing plant south of St Louis.

Jim and Astronuc can the public still tour this facility, or is it like all NPPs after Sep 11. It sounds like a really cool place to go see, how would you rate it compared to EBR 1?

 

[jim hardy]

...

I've been there a couple of times.

UF₆ is a solid at room/transportation temperature. The container is heated to about 125°C in a steam chest. The gas is hydrolyzed in a solution (wet process) or steam (dry process).

Thanks - if I ever knew that i'd forgotten it...
sorry for the misinformation. I should have checked before asserting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_hexafluoride

 

[Astronuc]

Jim and Astronuc can the public still tour this facility, or is it like all NPPs after Sep 11. It sounds like a really cool place to go see, how would you rate it compared to EBR 1?

It was shutdown more than 10 years ago (2001), and the site decommissioned as far as I know. The company was merged into another larger company as part of an industry consolidation.

 

[jim hardy]

Jim and Astronuc can the public still tour this facility, or is it like all NPPs after Sep 11. It sounds like a really cool place to go see, how would you rate it compared to EBR 1?

I don't know, A_V... for me it was a 1968 field trip for our reactor physics class.

i thought EBR-1 was more interesting. But I had forty years more experience under my belt.
The hand made meter scales in the control room, the four light bulbs that were lighted by world's first atomic electricity, and the concrete wall that the guys all signed , actually I felt really moved by their greatness. They did so much with just sliderules and vacuum tubes.
Great power and humility combined makes my tears well up..

I asked the knowledgeable young lady conducting tours that day whether I could surmise from her expertise that she was a physics major.
She replied "No, my Dad is a physicist here so I grew up with science. I'm majoring in Literature."

"Literature?" I thought... "What a Gothic storybook scene this is - mad scientist's incredibly beautiful daughter roaming the bowels of an abandoned nuclear plant.."

So no, I don't know if they have open house . But EBR sure does.

 

[Kutt]

During the late 1970's a woman named Karen Silkwood was badly contaminated with radiation while working at an unusually poorly kept and sloppily operated nuclear fuel processing facility.

The pellets handled at the fuel processing plant that Silkwood worked at in Cimarron, Oklahoma, (which has long since been abandoned and condemned due to dangerously high radioactivity) were handled through thick glass and with insulated gloves.

So at least in my mind, I was under the assumption that all fuel pellets were dangerous and radioactive.

The fuel pellets she worked with may have been a certain type of material which was highly hazardous and not the virtually harmless kind that you described during your experience at one of these facilities.

They even made a major Hollywood movie about her case. It's a good movie, definitely worth a watch.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086312/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

 

[Argentum Vulpes]

During the late 1970's a woman named Karen Silkwood was badly contaminated with radiation while working at an unusually poorly kept and sloppily operated nuclear fuel processing facility.

The pellets handled at the fuel processing plant that Silkwood worked at in Oklahoma (which has long since been abandoned and condemned due to dangerously high radioactivity) were handled through thick glass and with insulated gloves.

The fuel pellets she worked with may have been a certain type of material which was highly hazardous and not the practically harmless kind that you described during your experience at one of these facilities.

They even made a major Hollywood movie about her case.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086312/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Wow Kutt where do you dig this stuff up? I get it you don't like nuclear energy, and I have a feeling that more information will get you off you extremist horse.

First the Cimarron Fuel Fabrication Site owned by the Kerr-McGee Corporation produced MOX pellets and they require them to be ground and polished. Both operations produce particulate dust that if exposed to oxygen will self ignite. Therefore production of it must be done in an inert environment, hence the glove boxes.

The reason for the plant shutting down was not contamination but the fact that the fuel that was produced was for a government contract, for a reactor that no longer needed fuel. In 2000 a majority of the site was green fieled (AKA unrestricted usage), the only part left is some ground water remediation with full unrestricted usage to happen by 2017. And serching the NRC I can not find any incident reports of the Cimarron Fuel Fabrication Site.

As for the movie if you get your information on the nuclear industry from Hollywood just stop. In movies the truth is always the first thing to hit the cutting room floor.

 

[Astronuc]

During the late 1970's a woman named Karen Silkwood was badly contaminated with radiation while working at an unusually poorly kept and sloppily operated nuclear fuel processing facility.

The pellets handled at the fuel processing plant that Silkwood worked at in Cimarron, Oklahoma, (which has long since been abandoned and condemned due to dangerously high radioactivity) were handled through thick glass and with insulated gloves.

So at least in my mind, I was under the assumption that all fuel pellets were dangerous and radioactive.

The fuel pellets she worked with may have been a certain type of material which was highly hazardous and not the virtually harmless kind that you described during your experience at one of these facilities.

Karen Silkwood died in a 'suspicious' car accident in 1974. The plant had some serious violations of health and safety regulations.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/reaction/interact/silkwood.html

The plant was not 'abandoned and condemned', but rather 'decontaminated and decommissioned'. Ref: http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/10151437-tEZOv9/native/10151437.pdf

The Cimarron plant contained the chemical process apparatus and manufacturing tooling and procedures to fabricate mixed oxide(PuO₂UO₂) fuel pins for the (ZPPR) Zero Power Plutonium Reactor and the (FFTF) Fast Flux Test Reactor programs.

The process started with plutonium nitrate feed solution provided by the Department of Energy (DOE, AEC at the time) and uranyl nitrate solution provided by Kerr-McGee. The nitrate solutions were weighed and mixed in proportion, processed into powder, compacted into shape (right cylinders) and sintered into ceramic pellets. The pellets were ground to l size, and loaded into tubes and encapsulated by welding end inspected plugs in the tubes which completed the pins. The completed pins were inspected for a multitude of attributes, the acceptable pins were supplied to others for (wire wrap) further fabrication and assembly into fuel elements or bundles for installation into the reactor. These campaigns were successfully completed.

I know that Hanford took over fabrication of FFTF fuel, and I believe ZPPR fuel production was also moved to another site in the 1970s, about the time the AEC was restructured into the NRC and ERDA/DOE.

Mixed-oxide (U,Pu)O₂ was handled in glove boxes. Modern plants use remote handling with bulk/batch processing. MOX fuel is more radiocative than conventional UO₂ fuel.

 

[jim hardy]

Kutt one does not impress people by repeating the silly hyperbole bandied about in shallow tabloids and movies made solely to excite.

When you begin instead to post information with content based on fact , I will be impressed because you will be demonstrating self improvement and growth.

Read up on MOX at Belgonucleaire's site.

Read "The Curve of Binding Energy" by John McPhee.
Note difference in style between that book and "Prometheus Crisis".

Even "China Syndrome" movie managed to be reasonably correct in their science.

Why do you have this need to exaggerate?