Time-dependent mass and the Lagrangian

In summary, the conversation discusses the expression of a particle's Lagrangian in terms of its potential and mass, and the potential need to potentially rewrite the kinetic energy equation using two different methods. The first method is only applicable in certain scenarios, while the second method is not a valid derivation for variable mass systems.
  • #1
Mr rabbit
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I was talking to a friend about Lagrangian mechanics and this question came out. Suppose a particle under a potential ##U(r)## and whose mass is ##m=m(t)##. So the question is: the Lagrangian of the particle can be expressed by

##L = \frac{1}{2} m(t) \dot{\vec{r}} ^2 -U(r)##

or I need to re-write the kinetic energy? Maybe this way

## \displaystyle T = \int \vec{F} \cdot d\vec{r} = \int \frac{d\vec{p}}{dt} \cdot \vec{v} \: dt = \int \vec{v} \cdot d\vec{p} = \int \vec{v} \cdot (\vec{v} \: dm + m \: d \vec{v}) = \int v^2 \: dm + \int m \: \vec{v} \cdot d \vec{v} ##
 
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  • #2
It's as in your first equation. If ##r## is a single 1d coordinate, the equation of motion will be

##0 = \frac{\partial L}{\partial r} - \frac{d}{dt}\left(\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{r}}\right)##
## = -\frac{\partial U}{\partial r} - \frac{d}{dt}( m(t)\dot{r})##
## = -\frac{\partial U}{\partial r} - m(t)\ddot{r} - \dot{m}(t)\dot{r}##
 
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  • #3
Mr rabbit said:
I was talking to a friend about Lagrangian mechanics and this question came out. Suppose a particle under a potential ##U(r)## and whose mass is ##m=m(t)##. So the question is: the Lagrangian of the particle can be expressed by

##L = \frac{1}{2} m(t) \dot{\vec{r}} ^2 -U(r)##

or I need to re-write the kinetic energy? Maybe this way

## \displaystyle T = \int \vec{F} \cdot d\vec{r} = \int \frac{d\vec{p}}{dt} \cdot \vec{v} \: dt = \int \vec{v} \cdot d\vec{p} = \int \vec{v} \cdot (\vec{v} \: dm + m \: d \vec{v}) = \int v^2 \: dm + \int m \: \vec{v} \cdot d \vec{v} ##
The first method is appropriate when the process that changes the mass does not result in additional force on the remaining body. For example, when the body ejects mass in two opposite directions with the same rate. It is not valid for a rocket in flight, because mass is thrown away in a preferred direction and as a result, there is a strong force acting on the rocket. The second method is not a valid derivation, since for variable mass systems, external force does not in general equal d(mv)/dt.
 
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Related to Time-dependent mass and the Lagrangian

1. What is time-dependent mass in relation to the Lagrangian?

Time-dependent mass refers to a situation where the mass of a system is changing with respect to time. The Lagrangian, which is a mathematical function used to describe the dynamics of a system, takes into account this time-dependent mass, allowing for a more accurate representation of the system's behavior.

2. How does the Lagrangian account for time-dependent mass?

The Lagrangian includes a term for the time derivative of the mass, which takes into account the changing mass of the system. This allows for a more comprehensive understanding of the dynamics of the system and can lead to more accurate predictions.

3. Can the Lagrangian be used for systems with constant mass?

Yes, the Lagrangian can still be used for systems with constant mass. In this case, the mass term in the Lagrangian would simply be a constant value and would not affect the equations of motion.

4. What are some examples of systems with time-dependent mass?

Examples of systems with time-dependent mass include a rocket during launch, where the mass decreases as fuel is burned, and a simple pendulum with a moving pivot point, where the effective mass changes as the pendulum swings back and forth.

5. How does the inclusion of time-dependent mass affect the equations of motion in the Lagrangian?

The inclusion of time-dependent mass in the Lagrangian leads to additional terms in the equations of motion, making them more complex. However, these additional terms allow for a more accurate representation of the system's behavior, particularly in cases where the mass is changing significantly over time.

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