Tipping has gotten out of hand in the US

[Evo]

Yes, that's an extra service to take it to the table for you...and more than that actually, it's that they keep coming back, saving you more trips to the counter, if you need anything else. They are actually waiting upon you, making sure you can just sit and eat and not get up everytime you want something else. If you order at a counter and carry it to your own table, it's just the same as a fast food restaurant. Do you tip at McDonald's? There's no special service there, just buying the item being sold.

I've been a waitress in a small place before, and I worked much harder when I did the order taking, cooking, drink mixing, cleaning, and cashiering, while standing behind a counter, than simply carrying food to a table.

I'm not talking about a Subway or other fast food place. I guess a good rule of thumb would be if there are chairs at some part of the counter, then the person is also a waiter as well, and they probably work for tips.

fileen, at that point, you shout ROACHES!

 

[LowlyPion]

I've been a waitress in a small place before, and I worked much harder when I did the order taking, cooking, drink mixing, cleaning, and cashiering, while standing behind a counter, than simply carrying food to a table.

Sounds like a housewife with kids.

 

[NeoDevin]

It doesn't seem like it would be legal.

(In Canada at least) There is no recourse for the business to force the server/employee to pay for it, but they are within their rights to fire you if you don't make up the difference.

 

[BobG]

(In Canada at least) There is no recourse for the business to force the server/employee to pay for it, but they are within their rights to fire you if you don't make up the difference.

Ironically, banks prefer their employees to be cooperative with thieves (http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/files/RIC/Publications/e03071267.pdf :

During a robbery, bank practices are highly standardized;
consequently, robbers know that they can count on
compliant victims. Most banks—consistent with police
advice—direct employees to comply quickly with robbers’
demands. Tellers willingly empty their cash drawers when
presented with a simple robbery demand note, whether
or not violence is threatened or a weapon is displayed.
The bank’s primary objective is to protect the safety and
security of its employees and customers by reducing
the likelihood of violence. Consequently, the risk that a
robber will encounter resistance is extremely low.

Bank employees are so compliant that the robbery itself
is a quick and efficient transaction; more than two-thirds
of bank robberies are completed in three minutes or
less. Robbers often wait in the teller’s line with legitimate
customers and pass a demand note to the teller. In many
robberies, the event is handled so discreetly that other
customers and even other employees are not even aware
that a crime has occurred until after the robber has left
the premises.

 

[Moonbear]

I'm not talking about a Subway or other fast food place. I guess a good rule of thumb would be if there are chairs at some part of the counter, then the person is also a waiter as well, and they probably work for tips.

Oh, we were talking about different things then. You're talking about sitting at the counter in a diner type situation. Yeah, that's the same as sitting at a table. Someone is still coming over to check on you every so often, etc. I thought you meant standing in a line to place an order with someone at a register who hands it to you and you pay.

 

[NeoDevin]

Ironically, banks prefer their employees to be cooperative with thieves (http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/files/RIC/Publications/e03071267.pdf :

I think bank robberies are probably far more likely to become violent if the demands are not met than a simple dine and dash.

 

[lisab]

Ironically, banks prefer their employees to be cooperative with thieves (http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/files/RIC/Publications/e03071267.pdf :

One of my many jobs I had as I worked through college was a clerk at a 7-11 (of course). We were instructed to be entirely cooperative with any robbers.

But a fellow 7-11 clerk in a nearby town was robbed and he fought back - and won! The robbers fled with no money.

Ane he was promptly fired!

Hijack over - I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread, "Tipping has gotten out of hand..."

 

[BobG]

One of my many jobs I had as I worked through college was a clerk at a 7-11 (of course). We were instructed to be entirely cooperative with any robbers.

But a fellow 7-11 clerk in a nearby town was robbed and he fought back - and won! The robbers fled with no money.

Ane he was promptly fired!

Hijack over - I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread, "Tipping has gotten out of hand..."

Bottom line is:

a) Employee that doesn't receive tips; cooperate and allow people to rob your store or business.
b) Employee that does receive tips; attempt to tackle would-be thieves without injuring any of the customers (not receiving any injuries yourself is optional).

Or, conversely:
a) Tip the employees most likely to have to prevent theft. That probably wouldn't include the security guard at a bank.
b) Don't tip employees that won't bother to endanger their health to stop theft.

Actually, that should probably be expanded. If the employee would endanger their health to save a customer, they should probably be tipped, as well (rafting guides, etc). I would probably leave a pretty big tip if a waittress performed the Heimlich maneuver on me.

 

[redargon]

If you follow Evo's ideas, then optimally you should probably tip the chef/cook/food,beverage producer and not the waitron. They obviously do more work.

But then, what about the guy that killed the cow, the guy that picked the vegetables, packed it in the van, drove it to the resturant/shopping facility, unpacked it, the guy that cleans the restuarant/shopping facility, etc etc. These are all (generally) low paying jobs and they are providing a link in the chain of service to you and probably expended more work than the person who brought you your meal. On the other hand... who is the person who gets blamed if the place is dirty or the food is cold or the order is wrong etc, etc. Usually the waitron.

How about this for an idea: As consumer driven people who spend on meal in a resturant in one night, the total amount of money that millions of people survive on in a month, how about tipping "low" wage workers a little (I'm not saying not at all!) less (let their unions fight for higher wages and benefits) and send what you saved tipping to a charity of your choice. Then you would make more than just one person's day. Now wouldn't that be nice.

 

[dyosa]

very well said redargon. tipping is like a complement to a service well done.

 

[Evo]

If you follow Evo's ideas, then optimally you should probably tip the chef/cook/food,beverage producer and not the waitron. They obviously do more work.

No, only if they also serve the food. Like I said, I worked at a couple of small lunch counter type places when I was in school and I worked for tips.

 

[noumed]

You should tip us software engineers. If not, we'll put a bug in your code.

We tip you by not pirating your software.

 

[NeoDevin]

We tip you by not pirating your software.

We do?

 

[scorpa]

I wonder if these same people go into a bar and refuse to tip the bartender because all he's doing is making them a drink?

This reminds me of the last time I was at a bar ( a crappy club not a pub type bar) and I ordered a vodka slime. It took that bartender all of 10 seconds to make, I hand him a 10 dollar bill for the 4 dollar drink expecting change and he takes the remaining 6 bucks, puts it in his tip jar and won't give it back. My friend saw this happen and asked for her change back (minus a dollar tip) and he looked at her and said "Don't bother coming back then". I couldn't believe it. Just one more reason why I despise going out to places like that.

I always tip waiters/waitresses at restaurants but that is pretty much it. I won't tip people I know darn well are making more money than I am...eg cable guy or pretty well everyone else for that matter. No one tips me for anything I do nor do I expect it, I really hate how people are starting to expect tips for every last little thing.

 

[Evo]

This reminds me of the last time I was at a bar ( a crappy club not a pub type bar) and I ordered a vodka slime. It took that bartender all of 10 seconds to make, I hand him a 10 dollar bill for the 4 dollar drink expecting change and he takes the remaining 6 bucks, puts it in his tip jar and won't give it back. My friend saw this happen and asked for her change back (minus a dollar tip) and he looked at her and said "Don't bother coming back then". I couldn't believe it. Just one more reason why I despise going out to places like that.

Basically, what he did was theft. I guess I have been lucky, I have never had to put up with anything like that.

 

[moose]

I was shocked when my hair dresser wanted a tip. When you pay like 40 bucks for a trim you don't really want to tip.

I would prefer to tip my barber than anyone else. You can have a bad experience while eating a meal, but that doesn't even matter all that much. If someone does a great job on your haircut though, that's gold. I tip very highly in this situation.

 

[cristo]

I wonder if these same people go into a bar and refuse to tip the bartender because all he's doing is making them a drink?

This is one of the things about the US that I'm still amazed by: bartenders, and most other people working in catering-type jobs expect to be tipped, regardless of how well they do their job. Like, for example, when a bartender takes the top off a bottle of (crappy light) beer and serves it to me s/he expects to get tipped. Well, that is something I'm definitely not used to, and am never going to tip for, regardless of how much of a faux pas it is. I only ever tip (when I'm home) if someone gives an extremely high level of service, otherwise they're just doing their job which they get paid for anyway.

 

[elfboy]

I almost never tip especially when I buy food over the counter. My explanation is that when it says on the bill is what I pay. I have no need to pay more than I'm entitled to.

 

[Evo]

Here in the US people serving food get paid almost nothing in wages because they are supposed to work for tips.

You have to have worked for tips to understand how important it is.

 

[devil-fire]

Here in the US people serving food get paid almost nothing in wages because they are supposed to work for tips.

You have to have worked for tips to understand how important it is.

I duno. If waitresses didn't get tips and just got payed the same amount as the cooks, who's food they were delivering, I expect waitresses would just find a higher paying job. I mean anyone who is working a low paying job and wants to get payed more for their time just goes and starts looking for another job, right?

"I'm here working as a telemarketer and I feed my kids with the tips... except I'm not getting any tips so my kids are starving! You customers are all lousy!"- some crazy person

 

[NeoDevin]

I duno. If waitresses didn't get tips and just got payed the same amount as the cooks, who's food they were delivering, I expect waitresses would just find a higher paying job. I mean anyone who is working a low paying job and wants to get payed more for their time just goes and starts looking for another job, right?

If waitresses didn't get tips and got payed the same as cooks (read: More than they get paid currently) then not tipping wouldn't be a serious problem, now would it? But that would also mean that your food would cost more, so the business could pay their staff more. That's fine, that's how many countries in the world do it, and it works well. In the US and Canada, however, that's not how it works. Waitresses/other service staff get paid only a minimal amount (generally barely more than minimum wage), and count on tips to make their income competitive.

I've noticed (during my stint as a bartender, where I made $8 (Canadian)/hour) that people from overseas have a difficult time understanding this at first, and then they get a reputation at the places they visit for being a poor/non tipper, and receive poorer service as a result (downward spiral).

 

[waht]

You guys have a wrong impression of how much cable guys make.

I used to work as a cable guy for a major cable company partime during college. I can tell you they make slightly more than minimum wage. Only the 20 year veterans make about $20/hour, unless you are in a union. Starting with $8 an hour in some places, good luck climbing poles in a -20 degrees freezing weather.

I used to get tips all the time, but only from customers that were cordial and really down to earth. I could sense that in the first 30 seconds and that's when I go out of my way to do a nice job. Not to get the tip of course, but becuase there is a connection between the customer.

As for others, well I could have done better. And they got what they paid for.

 

[ShawnD]

You guys have a wrong impression of how much cable guys make.

I used to work as a cable guy for a major cable company partime during college. I can tell you they make slightly more than minimum wage. Only the 20 year veterans make about $20/hour, unless you are in a union. Starting with $8 an hour in some places, good luck climbing poles in a -20 degrees freezing weather.

Do you live in Mexico?

In Edmonton, Best Buy pays $11/h for part time work (I work there). McDonalds pays $10.50/h. Any job involving a truck automatically starts at around $15-20/h. If they have a union, maybe $25-30/h (this is why services are so expensive).

I always tip 10% rounded up to the nearest dollar ($2 tip for $13 bill), but I hate tipping. As a result, I do my absolute best to avoid tipping situations. I never go to restaurants with waiters, and the only bar I go to is the campus bar (rarely). I always tip my barber, but I only get a hair cut once every 2 months or so.
I understand how important tips are to people who work in the service industry, and I strongly disagree with how that system works. Rather than protesting by being an *******, I just take my business elsewhere. I don't think I've ever seen a tip jar at McDonalds, where they actually pay a decent part time wage.

edit: my barber only charges $13 for a haircut, so tipping is not uncalled for. If I was paying $80 for a haircut, that would be a different story altogether.

 

[cristo]

I've noticed (during my stint as a bartender, where I made $8 (Canadian)/hour) that people from overseas have a difficult time understanding this at first, and then they get a reputation at the places they visit for being a poor/non tipper, and receive poorer service as a result (downward spiral).

But that's hardly a miserable wage: bar staff over here get paid, on average, about £5 an hour, and they don't expect tips. Bar tending is renowned as being a low paid job.

 

[NeoDevin]

But that's hardly a miserable wage: bar staff over here get paid, on average, about £5 an hour, and they don't expect tips. Bar tending is renowned as being a low paid job.

You're free to think that if you want. I can tell you that when I was a bartender, if you had come into my bar you would get excellent service the first time or two that you came in, but after a couple times with no tip, I would probably be focusing most of my attention on the tipping customers.

 

[cristo]

You're free to think that if you want.

There's nothing to think about: it is not a miserable wage.

I can tell you that when I was a bartender, if you had come into my bar you would get excellent service the first time or two that you came in, but after a couple times with no tip, I would probably be focusing most of my attention on the tipping customers.

If you did something truly "excellent" then you'd probably get a tip, but if all you did was open a bottle, you wouldn't get a tip, and if you then became an *** and started serving tipping customers first, regardless of a queue, I'd go somewhere else. There is not a shortage of bars!

 

[NeoDevin]

There's nothing to think about: it is not a miserable wage.

I don't know where you're defining `miserable' to be, but when minimum wage is $7/hour, $8/hour is pretty miserable unless you're a high school student living with your parents. That's barely enough to make rent here (typical rents in this city are $1000+/month for a single bedroom appt.), never mind having enough left to buy food or spend on anything else.

If you did something truly "excellent" then you'd probably get a tip, but if all you did was open a bottle, you wouldn't get a tip, and if you then became an *** and started serving tipping customers first, regardless of a queue, I'd go somewhere else. There is not a shortage of bars!

Excellent service is more than just opening bottles, I hope for your sake, you never have to work for tips, because you'd probably starve.

 

[cristo]

Excellent service is more than just opening bottles, I hope for your sake, you never have to work for tips, because you'd probably starve.

I don't think you're reading what I'm saying. What I meant was that if you give excellent service by, say, making a complicated cocktail or something equivalent, then you would probably get a tip, but opening bottles isn't tipworthy, regardless of how you do it. And no, I won't have to ever work for tips, because that doesn't happen over here!

 

[JasonRox]

Basically, what he did was theft. I guess I have been lucky, I have never had to put up with anything like that.

Haha, someone tried to that to a friend of mine. He reached over and took his money. Haha!

 

[JasonRox]

I don't think you're reading what I'm saying. What I meant was that if you give excellent service by, say, making a complicated cocktail or something equivalent, then you would probably get a tip, but opening bottles isn't tipworthy, regardless of how you do it. And no, I won't have to ever work for tips, because that doesn't happen over here!

In corporate America, it's happening everywhere. It's instead of the company paying the employee, the customer pays for the product, the employee, and a profit margin (which is USUALLY used to pay the employee).

 

[fileen]

I once had to move 40 bales of wood shaving for a customer, the guy looked about 25, sat on the grass and watched me (15) throwing bag after bag into his truck. I was pretty irritated by the end when I was all hot and irritated, and he he was blowing smoke in my general direction. Of course this was part of my job so I certainly didnt complain or suggest he assist me. Once they were all loaded he showed me his bill and started arguing about the price of the shavings. He wanted a discount for buying a bunch at a time. I kept telling him that I couldn't do anything about it even if I wanted to, that he'd have to speak to a manager the owner. He got really mad and started yelling, and I told him he could call any time and ask a manager for help. He finally left squeeling his tires. An older gentleman who had been waiting for me to help him had watched and when I went to get him his 3 bags of food he tipped me 10$. He was a regular and had never tipped me before and I was pretty certain he was only tipping me because Id dealt with the previous guy. It felt really strange. I had never been tipped before and even though I made 8.50/hour I still didnt want to take it. He wouldn't let me refuse though, and tipped me every time he came in after. I couldn't help but want to go out of my way for him. If the food he usually bought went on sale, I would call him and let him know. When he opened a bag and didnt like the feed, even though wer'e not suppose to, I let him have a new bag in return for the old. The manager was cool with it because he was a regular. My desire to help him out was not just because of the money he represented, it was because he had gone out of his way to let me know he understood that my job sucked and I got paid next to nothing. If hed never tipped me again Id still go out of my way for him because I felt like he appreciated what I did every day. It freaked me out that young fit looking guys would stand around watching me drag around hundreds of pounds of horse food, and the older gentlemen flat out refused to let me carry it alone. To someone who works in a job like that, a simple drop of the tail gait is better than any money you could tip them. If the lady who wanted free horse food brought in a bag of opened food wanted a refund I would not be inclined to give her the time of day. She treated me like crap. I guess what it comes down to is what goes around comes around

 

[Pythagorean]

completely depends on situation.

It's easy to become a preferred customer with tips. For instance, if you're a good tipper, in a bar, you will be the first one served when you're 1/50 waving money and shouting at the bartender (assuming the bartender knows you're a good tipper)

People will generally find ways to favor their tipping customers and eventually may even begin to spite the non-tippers more.

Oh yeah, and never be mean to fast food people. Unless you're ok with digesting saliva.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

If you did something truly "excellent" then you'd probably get a tip, but if all you did was open a bottle, you wouldn't get a tip, and if you then became an *** and started serving tipping customers first, regardless of a queue, I'd go somewhere else. There is not a shortage of bars!

But there may be a shortage of bars where you get good service. I always tip bartenders well. And I know that they will be sure to get me my drink quickly and make it well. Often they even put more alcohol in it, though I don't generally like that. My tab tends to be less. If they have extra of shots they were making or of some blended drink I will often find it sitting in front of me on the bar. If I ask for a fancy drink or top shelf liquor I pay the price of a well drink. I also some times get free food and let in for free when there's a cover charge.

I hate bikini bars though. If they realize that flirting with you and showing lots of cleavage isn't going to get more money out of you they practically ignore you even if you tip well.