Toyota #1 in the World: GM Falls Behind

[Ivan Seeking]

Toyota Surpassed GM in First Quarter Sales, Foreshadowing Toyota’s Inevitable Position as World’s Largest Automaker According to Edmunds’ AutoObserver.com [continued]

http://home.businesswire.com/portal...d=news_view&newsId=20070424006461&newsLang=en

I hate to see US companies falling behind but they deserve it! Case in point: GM blames sluggish SUV sales [due to home equity losses nationwide] for their 2nd place finish last quarter. I think most SUVs should have their tires glued to the ground and the companies making them run out of business.

Also, as we've discussed before, after twenty years of ownership I am a huge Toyota fan. They make a great car.

 

[Evo]

Toyota's are excellent cars.

It's irritated me for years that all the drive throughs, including the post office were raised up to suit SUV's. I'm glad to see SUVs falling out of favor.

 

[G01]

I can't stand SUV's...

 

[Moonbear]

Toyota's are excellent cars.

It's irritated me for years that all the drive throughs, including the post office were raised up to suit SUV's. I'm glad to see SUVs falling out of favor.

I agree! Grrrrr. Now I have to stretch to reach the windows, and at a few, can't reach at all unless I open the car door (like at the drive-thru ATM). Very few people who own SUVs actually need them, and most aren't even made to handle the terrain SUVs were originally intended for. Nothing but a status symbol.

 

[denverdoc]

I own a acura--but what convinced me to buy was a friends Civic. I've owned Italian (not!), German, Japanese and USA. I'll buy another in a heartbeat.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I can't say anything bad about Honda [acura]. By chance I ended up with Toyota over the long run, but I did once own a Civic. Great car.

 

[scorpa]

Don't flame me for liking an SUV but I think their new FJ cruiser is a really neat vehicle. I am not happy with the new body style of their trucks...not happy at all.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

A diesel SUV that runs on biodiesel wouldn't be so bad, but it is still terribly dangerous for those of us who drive high milage [much smaller] vehicles. Have you ever been trapped between SUVs in a small car? If anything happens, the person in the small car has a serious disadvantage. Is it right that people trying to conserve energy [in the national interest as well as environmental] have to put their lives at greater risk to do it? This is why I think large SUVs and trucks should be treated as are tractor-trailers - 55 mph max and stay in the right lanes. Besides, forcing the reduced speeds would save energy.

 

[JasonRox]

A diesel SUV that runs on biodiesel wouldn't be so bad, but it is still terribly dangerous for those of us who drive high milage [much smaller] vehicles. Have you ever been trapped between SUVs in a small car? If anything happens, the person in the small car has a serious disadvantage. Is it right that people trying to conserve energy [in the national interest as well as environmental] have to put their lives at greater risk to do it? This is why I think large SUVs and trucks should be treated as are tractor-trailers - 55 mph max and stay in the right lanes. Besides, forcing the reduced speeds would save energy.

That won't happen in BIG America. I have never seen a good citizen's interest being put first in my life.

 

[scorpa]

A diesel SUV that runs on biodiesel wouldn't be so bad, but it is still terribly dangerous for those of us who drive high milage [much smaller] vehicles. Have you ever been trapped between SUVs in a small car? If anything happens, the person in the small car has a serious disadvantage. Is it right that people trying to conserve energy [in the national interest as well as environmental] have to put their lives at greater risk to do it? This is why I think large SUVs and trucks should be treated as are tractor-trailers - 55 mph max and stay in the right lanes. Besides, forcing the reduced speeds would save energy.

Is the 55mph max thing just a states thing, because we don't seem to have that here. Semis blow by me all the time at at least 120 (km/h). I don't know how much limiting the speed will really help anyway, accidents will still happen...small car drivers cause just as many as truck drivers do. Either way I wasn't condoning SUVs or anything I just think the new FJ cruiser looks really neat!

 

[momentum_waves]

Toyota are very visionary. I had the privilege of attending the opening of their Technical Centre in Bangkok, Thailand. The main speaker was their Director of Technology - a very astute man. They deserve every inch of their hard-won position.

 

[Moonbear]

Is the 55mph max thing just a states thing, because we don't seem to have that here. Semis blow by me all the time at at least 120 (km/h). I don't know how much limiting the speed will really help anyway, accidents will still happen...small car drivers cause just as many as truck drivers do. Either way I wasn't condoning SUVs or anything I just think the new FJ cruiser looks really neat!

Most states have done away with that limit for some time now. It was implemented back during the 70s fuel shortage (I think) when it was determined that that was the optimal speed for conserving fuel. I don't know if that's the optimal speed for modern cars. For a long time, Federal highway funding to the states was tied to the states maintaining 55 mph as the maximum speed limit, so that's what got them to go along with it (they could have raised it, but would have lost the highway money, which would have been costly to the states). It wasn't meant as a safety measure, just a fuel conservation measure.

In terms of semis, though, yes a lot of states still have a separate speed limit for them, especially when the car speed limit is fairly high, and that is a safety issue now...it doesn't mean they follow the speed limit. That takes into account the greater stopping distance for a loaded semi, as well as stability of the vehicle at higher speeds.

The absolute worst combination I frequently see on highways are the semis exceeding the speed limit, and the small sports cars weaving through traffic, also exceeding the speed limit, and cutting off the semis. There are also idiots who will cut in front of a semi and then stop short, giving them no room to stop.

People driving SUVs, especially the larger models, also often don't realize they are driving a truck and can't just drive it like they drive a car. I think this is even more of a problem since manufacturers have improved the steering so it doesn't "feel" like a truck so much. I think anyone owning an SUV or pick-up truck (or any other large vehicle, like a van, RV, or to tow a travel trailer behind your car) should require an additional driving test and endorsement on their license to be allowed to drive it, just to make sure they know how to drive the thing. This should include things like walking around the vehicle before backing out of a driveway to make sure there isn't anything or anybody behind it in the blind spot, and general awareness that they HAVE large blind spots, appropriate use of the side mirrors, ability to parallel park that monster, knowledge of increased stopping distances and safe following distances, differences in handling during a skid and risks of rollovers on tight curves, etc. Those vehicles do have a lot more in common with what semi drivers need to know than with what the average driving test covers for driving a car. While there are people who do know how to safely drive an SUV or pick-up truck, a lot don't. And, it's really not just them, and not just an issue of fuel consumption. There are people whose regular cars are small compact cars, but then when they need to move, they rent that moving truck and stick a trailer behind it to tow their car, and have never in their life driven a large truck, let alone handled a trailer before, and that's just a dangerous combination to put them on a long road-trip with no experience driving such a vehicle...and anyone with a valid driver's license can do it.

Anyway, that's not the intent of the thread, and isn't really related to fuel consumption issues, or vehicle manufacturers, I just had to vent that thought.

More on topic, in terms of vehicle needs of the general public, what manufacturers other than Subaru still have station wagon style models? I think a lot cut those lines as minivans and SUVs became the more popular "family" vehicles, but that's really what most energy-conscious families need...just a vehicle with a large enough area in the back to fit a stroller alongside the diaper bag and groceries. Half the problem is the way strollers have gotten ridiculously huge too. Some of them just won't fit into the trunk of some cars (it frustrates me when the trunk capacity is sufficient to fit something into it, but the opening isn't large enough). The older cars used to have huge trunks and trunk openings, and that was amenable for such uses as fitting in strollers. Station wagons aren't as ugly as they used to be, but maybe they need a make-over and new advertising campaign to get people to move toward smaller vehicles with better mileage without compromising that cargo space they desire. And maybe that's what they need to come out with as hybrid models, or models capable of running on biodiesel, etc, to attract the eco-friendly, family-friendly market.

 

[scorpa]

More on topic, in terms of vehicle needs of the general public, what manufacturers other than Subaru still have station wagon style models?

I know the Ford taurus used to come in a wagon model but I do not know if it still does. Volvo still might make them as well but I'm not terribly sure.

 

[Moonbear]

I know the Ford taurus used to come in a wagon model but I do not know if it still does. Volvo still might make them as well but I'm not terribly sure.

Checked Edmunds on the Taurus, and they don't list a wagon model, at least for the 2008 year coming out. Oh, but I see they have the Freestyle. I don't even know if I've heard of that before. Is that new? They must not be advertising that very aggressively. Though, the Escape is cheaper!

You're right, Volvo still has wagons, though with their price ranges, again I can see why someone would opt for a small SUV instead.

So, it seems there are some options out there, now they just need to get those prices down to compete with the smaller SUVs and advertise them to the soccer-mom market.

 

[scorpa]

Checked Edmunds on the Taurus, and they don't list a wagon model, at least for the 2008 year coming out. Oh, but I see they have the Freestyle. I don't even know if I've heard of that before. Is that new? They must not be advertising that very aggressively. Though, the Escape is cheaper!

You're right, Volvo still has wagons, though with their price ranges, again I can see why someone would opt for a small SUV instead.

So, it seems there are some options out there, now they just need to get those prices down to compete with the smaller SUVs and advertise them to the soccer-mom market.

The Freestyle is a "crossover" model...kind of half van half SUV. I think it has been out for about 2 years or so now, they advertised it a bit when it first came out but not so much now.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I thought 55 mph limit still applies to all large trucks, but it appears that this is not true in all states. I know it is in Oregon and California.

Some states have lower truck speed limits applicable to heavy trucks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_States

 

[Moonbear]

I thought 55 mph limit still applies to all large trucks, but it appears that this is not true in all states. I know it is in Oregon and California.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_States

Yeah, I know that NJ does NOT have a separate speed limit for trucks, for example (then again, it's hard for even the cars to get up to the speed limit with all the traffic congestion). I don't think I've seen any separate speed limits here either (and the speed limit for cars is 70), but there are separate truck lanes (or for any other slow vehicle) going UP the mountains (and then they merge at the top with all the cars still trying to race past them ). MI did have a separate truck speed limit, and it was either 55 or 60, but the car speed limit was 75! That was just plain dangerous, because the trucks weren't even required to stay to the right lane, so you'd have a car flying along at 75 (or 80 or 85...no matter how high the speed limit is, there are still people driving 10 over), and come up against a wall of trucks going 55 or 60. If the car driver slowed in time not to hit them, then they're impatiently tailgating the truck, trying to get around to get back to the car speed limit. If you're going to have more than one speed limit, you need separate lanes for vehicles that need to follow those speed limits.

 

[Anttech]

Toyota have been number 1 for a while, the last chance saloon was passed up by GM when they snubbed Renault, I think they will live to regret that.

Porsche is actually the most profitable in terms of profit margin per unit sold...

People driving SUVs, especially the larger models, also often don't realize they are driving a truck and can't just drive it like they drive a car.

How big are you talking about here? I've not been to the states for 3 years or so, but I don't remember SUV's being *that* big, perhaps I was de-astonished by that point or something...

 

[scorpa]

Toyota have been number 1 for a while, the last chance saloon was passed up by GM when they snubbed Renault, I think they will live to regret that.

Porsche is actually the most profitable in terms of profit margin per unit sold...

How big are you talking about here? I've not been to the states for 3 years or so, but I don't remember SUV's being *that* big, perhaps I was de-astonished by that point or something...

I'm guessing that they mean larger SUVs such as Expeditions, Excursions and Suburbans rather than the teeny little Jeep I drive. Those SUVs are basically trucks without the box.

 

[Anttech]

I'm guessing that they mean larger SUVs such as Expeditions, Excursions and Suburbans rather than the teeny little Jeep I drive. Those SUVs are basically trucks without the box.

They are about the size of a small mini bus right? By Truck also I guess in America you have a different definition, you don't mean a "Lorry" do you, you mean a "Van"

We are speaking the same language arent we?

In Europe we don't see these gigantic Van/truck/pickups. We have what we term Cheslie tractors (which your jeep may be classified as, depending which model it is ), which are equally as annoying. Land Rover lost me when they decided to make the Range Rover Sport? What the hell is a Range Rover sport supposed to be? We also have people carriers here, stupid large bus/car things, BUT they are actually economical for the most part, I just don't like em.

 

[Cyrus]

This is my short list of American cards I'd ever be seen driving in:

Corvette
GT 40
I like the new look of most dodge cars. The finally came up with something half way descent.
Chrysler 300
Off road style Jeep

Everything else is the ugliest POS I ever laid eyes on...so, of course there numbers will stink. Come up with nice cars that people want to buy.


It reminds me of James Clarkson. When he has to test a car that's so damn ugly, he just crashes it into a tree out of hatred.

Sadly, even good companies like BMW are turning out ugly POS cars too. Ewwwwwwwww. What happened to taste?

 

[scorpa]

It reminds me of James Clarkson. When he has to test a car that's so damn ugly, he just crashes it into a tree out of hatred.

I love Clarkson. Hilarious.

 

[Cyrus]

EWwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

http://car-reviews.automobile.com/images/cars/ArtImages/25582/alt01.jpg

EWwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

http://autoreview.belproject.com/media/1/20060707-2008-buick-lacrosse-super-v8-spy-photo.jpg

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

http://www.autopartscorner.com/includes/images/Auto_Parts_Corner/daewoo_Parts.JPG

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/7/H/S/2007_pontiac_g5.jpg

EWwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

http://www.automedia.com/NewCarBuyersGuide/photos/2005/Pontiac/Aztek/SUV/2005_Pontiac_Aztek_ext_1.jpg

EWWWWWWWWWWWW^ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Please, if you own any of these, do the world a favor. Crash it into the nearest tree.

They should have gone broke long time ago. What UGLY cars!

 

[Moonbear]

Please, if you own any of these, do the world a favor. Crash it into the nearest tree.

They should have gone broke long time ago. What UGLY cars!

I agree with you on 2, 4, and 6, but don't see anything wrong with the looks of the others. Not everyone wants a flashy sports car.

 

[Cyrus]

Its not about being a flash sports car. Its about being UGLAYYY. Even the red pontiac looks like its made cheaply.

Does that plastic exterior come in blue?

You like number 3?!? : Thats a car for the old people, because they lack all taste and just want to see the grandkids..but still even my grandmother has an old VW convertible
stick shift... she calls it the yellow submarine from the Beatles album.

 

[Astronuc]

What UGLY cars!

Yes, I have to agree. In general, European and Japanese cars are so much better than US designed and built, and in general, the performance is superior to that of US designs.

 

[Moonbear]

Its not about being a flash sports car. Its about being UGLAYYY. Even the red pontiac looks like its made cheaply.

It's just a matter of personal taste. Just becuase you think it's ugly doesn't make that a universal standard.

You like number 3?!? : Thats a car for the old people, because they lack all taste and just want to see the grandkids

There's nothing wrong with it. I wouldn't choose it for myself, because I don't like big cars like that, but it's hardly ugly. You don't like that, but then you have the Ford 500 in the list of cars you do like. What's the difference? The Ford 500 looks the same as every other large car in the class. I can see someone like a real estate agent choosing it for all the interior comfort (being so huge, there is a ton of legroom inside, even if you have adults in both the front and back seats, which is a plus if you're driving around for hours with adults in the back seat), but I wasn't at all impressed with it. Really slow to respond too, like driving a boat.

You should see the hideous Mercedes thing my neighbor has, but she loves it. I don't know, I don't see it at all. It looks like a big metal box. But that's the point, there's no universal definition of what is ugly or what people will like. Then again, I also don't understand buying a vehicle based on exterior styling anyway. I'm much more concerned with things like handling, acceleration, and gas mileage.

 

[Curious3141]

This is my short list of American cards I'd ever be seen driving in:

Corvette
GT 40
I like the new look of most dodge cars. The finally came up with something half way descent.
Chrysler 300
Off road style Jeep

Everything else is the ugliest POS I ever laid eyes on...so, of course there numbers will stink. Come up with nice cars that people want to buy.


It reminds me of James Clarkson. When he has to test a car that's so damn ugly, he just crashes it into a tree out of hatred.

Sadly, even good companies like BMW are turning out ugly POS cars too. Ewwwwwwwww. What happened to taste?

I hope you forgot (and did not consciously exclude) the Saleen S7, because that one's a beaut. I would love to drive that car, if I had the sufficient depth of pockets.

 

[Cyrus]

It's just a matter of personal taste. Just becuase you think it's ugly doesn't make that a universal standard.


There's nothing wrong with it. I wouldn't choose it for myself, because I don't like big cars like that, but it's hardly ugly. You don't like that, but then you have the Ford 500 in the list of cars you do like. What's the difference? The Ford 500 looks the same as every other large car in the class. I can see someone like a real estate agent choosing it for all the interior comfort (being so huge, there is a ton of legroom inside, even if you have adults in both the front and back seats, which is a plus if you're driving around for hours with adults in the back seat), but I wasn't at all impressed with it. Really slow to respond too, like driving a boat.

You should see the hideous Mercedes thing my neighbor has, but she loves it. I don't know, I don't see it at all. It looks like a big metal box. But that's the point, there's no universal definition of what is ugly or what people will like. Then again, I also don't understand buying a vehicle based on exterior styling anyway. I'm much more concerned with things like handling, acceleration, and gas mileage.

No, I said GT40 not ford 500. Huge difference.

http://www.racingarchives.org/images/sitephotos/gt40.jpg
Ford GT40...sexy time!

http://a904.g.akamai.net/7/904/506/v0011/www.autobytel.com/images/previews/05Ford500/400/2005-ford-five-hundred-front.jpg
Ford 500
Ewwwww^ewwwwwwww

 

[Anttech]

UGLAYYY.

Do you have to put your hand between your legs and squeeze to say that?... uuuGLLAY?

Anyway yeh the BMW 1 series is total rubbish, but if you put the new 1 series in, you have to put all the other series in too as they have the same styling... I first thought they were horrid, but they have grown on me.. Plus the new M6 is amazing

 

[Anttech]

It reminds me of James Clarkson. When he has to test a car that's so damn ugly, he just crashes it into a tree out of

Do you mean Jeremy Clarkson?

 

[Cyrus]

Oops, yeah. Also, I think all the new BMW's look like crap.

I like the 5 series look, but that's it.

 

[Anttech]

I used to think they were, but close up I am beginning to like the aggressive angles.. They grow on you...

 

[Cyrus]

No, they grow on you. They disgust me. Looks like absolute trash.

 

[edward]

The Ford 500 name is being dropped and renamed ...Tarus for 2008.
Ford had dropped the Tarus line just last fall. They need to make up their minds.

Ford management had gotten some weird idea idea that all of their vehicle names had to start with F. Fusion Freestyle Five hundred. It didn't work, their was no name recognition. The Escort is even coming back.

They should have made one named F*****UP if they wanted name recognition.