Two different equations of motion from the same Lagrangian?

In summary, the conversation discusses the equation of motion of a pendulum with a support that oscillates horizontally sinusoidally with angular frequency ##\omega##. The equation, given by (5.116), can also be derived using the Euler-Lagrange equation in ##x## and eliminating ##\ddot{x}##, as shown in (5.115). However, this results in a different solution for ##\theta (t)##, which represents a different system where the support is not oscillating at a known frequency. This explains why there are two solutions and what the former solution represents.
  • #1
Happiness
695
31
The equation of motion of a pendulum with a support oscillating horizontally sinusoidally with angular frequency ##\omega## is given by (5.116). (See attached.)

I get a different answer by considering the Euler-Lagrange equation in ##x## and then eliminating ##\ddot{x}## in (5.115):

Referring to (5.114), we have
##\frac{d}{dt}\frac{\partial L}{\partial\dot{x}}=\frac{\partial L}{\partial x}##
##\frac{d}{dt}(m\dot{x}+ml\dot{\theta}\cos\theta)=0##
##m\ddot{x}+ml\ddot{\theta}\cos\theta-ml\dot{\theta}^2\sin\theta=0##
##\ddot{x}=l\dot{\theta}^2\sin\theta-l\ddot{\theta}\cos\theta##

Substituting this into (5.115), we have
##l\ddot{\theta}+l\dot{\theta}^2\sin\theta\cos\theta-l\ddot{\theta}\cos^2\theta=-g\sin\theta##
##l\ddot{\theta}\sin\theta+\dot{\theta}^2\cos\theta=-g##

The solution ##\theta (t)## would in general be different from the solution ##\theta (t)## of (5.116). Why are there two solutions? What does the former solution represent?

Screen Shot 2016-08-06 at 2.00.02 am.png
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
The reason you're getting a different answer is because you are not solving the same system. The problem gives you x (t), but you are trying to solve for it as though it is an unknown. By doing this you are changing the support from moving at a known oscillation to having its oscillating based on the swinging of the pendulum. Hope that helps
 
  • Like
Likes vanhees71, Dale and Happiness

FAQ: Two different equations of motion from the same Lagrangian?

What is a Lagrangian?

A Lagrangian is a mathematical function that describes the dynamics of a physical system. It takes into account the positions and velocities of all the particles in the system and is used to calculate the equations of motion for the system.

How can two different equations of motion come from the same Lagrangian?

This can occur when different coordinate systems, such as Cartesian and spherical, are used to describe the same physical system. Each coordinate system will have its own set of equations of motion, but they can all be derived from the same Lagrangian.

What are the advantages of using a Lagrangian over other methods?

One advantage is that the Lagrangian formulation allows for a more elegant and concise way of describing the dynamics of a system. It also takes into account all possible paths of motion, rather than just the actual path taken by the system.

Are there any limitations to using the Lagrangian approach?

One limitation is that the Lagrangian approach requires a thorough understanding of the system in order to construct the appropriate Lagrangian function. It also may not be suitable for all systems, particularly those with strong dissipative forces or external perturbations.

How is the Lagrangian related to the principle of least action?

The principle of least action states that a physical system will follow the path that minimizes the action, which is a mathematical quantity related to the Lagrangian. In other words, the Lagrangian provides a way to calculate the action of a system and determine the path of least action.

Similar threads

Replies
76
Views
5K
Replies
7
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
9
Views
2K
Replies
17
Views
825
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
3
Views
1K
Back
Top