Types of welding

[sbrothy]

TL;DR Summary

What's the most versatile welding type?

I've watched a couple of DIY videos and one of them talked about TACK-welding. I'm a little overwhelmed with how many welding types there seem to be. Oxyacetylene welding equipment seems to be the cheapest, but which one of them all is the most versatile / useful in most cases?

Also, which one is the easiest to learn and the least dangerous for a beginner to start with?

Regards.

 

[Lnewqban]

Regular electric rod welding of low carbon steel is the safest and least expensive to learn.

Please, ask here:
https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/ask-your-welding-questions-here.210053/page-395

 

[gmax137]

search:
flux core welder
These are cheap and don't use tanks or anything beyond simple 120 volt AC. Watch some you-toob videos to get started.

 

[Baluncore]

I've watched a couple of DIY videos and one of them talked about TACK-welding. I'm a little overwhelmed with how many welding types there seem to be.

Tack welding is the placing of small weld spots to hold things in place before finish welding the majority of the seam. The order of progression is very important.

Welding is a profession, but can be a hobby. As you weld, the material expands, distorts, and does its best to deviate from your plans. Most of a welder's time is taken in preparation, and preventing distortion.

Electric welding has advanced since the availability of very low-cost compact electric welders. Oxyacetylene gas welding has largely been replaced by electric TIG welding. Electric welding, with flux coated rods, has been replaced by MIG welding to avoid hydrogen embrittlement.

Both MIG and TIG require an argon based shielding gas. Both employ the same low-cost, compact electric and protective equipment. That would make a good start for a mechanic. No one technique is most versatile. Use what you have that will work. When it doesn't work, learn another technique, or simply employ a professional.

One airline pilot told me he began as a welder, but gave that up because the welding machine knew more about him than he did about it.

 

[sbrothy]

I assure you I have the utmost respect for equipment that can blind or spectarcularly remove you from the gene pool.

 

[jack action]

Oxyacetylene welding equipment seems to be the cheapest,

I love gas welding. But if the equipment is cheap, the gases aren't.

The cheapest is probably arc welding, but the most versatile and easiest to learn might be MIG welding.

and the least dangerous

No matter the method, any equipment that can melt steel is dangerous (molten metal can go places it shouldn't). They also either use high electrical current or highly compressed combustible: both can be dangerous as well.

 

[Flyboy]

In terms of sheer versatility, TIG wins without question. But TIG is absolutely an artform and requires some serious equipment and practice to get the best results.

MIG welding is surprisingly beginner friendly. I’ve heard it be said that you can teach a monkey to MIG weld. Okay, not literally a monkey, but you can easily teach a person with even decent hand-eye coordination how to get quality welds out of it. But again, you do need some dedicated equipment and shielding gas.

Flux-core wire feed is the cheapest and easiest to learn but is somewhat limited in application.

Stick welding is one of the best for heavy structural work, but outside of that application it’s thoroughly outclassed by the others.

Oxyacetylene is more of a hobbyist/introductory level thing than a widely used technique. It is actually surprisingly flexible due to your ability to adjust your gas mix, and doesn’t require nearly as much PPE as arc welding, but it’s also very much an artform as well. I’ve done some oxyacetylene work before and I will freely admit that it’s both easier and harder than it looks.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Don't even consider welding without really good eye protection (and safety in general, of course). A good (automatic) welding helmet will give you good visibility of the work but darken instantly and protect your eyes. I had a lot of difficulty finding proper advice and replaced the (passive) one that came with the Mig welding machine PDQ. The new helmet is much better but I'm sure there are even better ones which will give you a better view of what you're doing.
The You-tube videos are very relaxing.

 

[sbrothy]

Thanks for the overview people. I have some thinking to do but now I have some knowledge to help me.

 

[sbrothy]

Regular electric rod welding of low carbon steel is the safest and least expensive to learn.

Please, ask here:
https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/ask-your-welding-questions-here.210053/page-395

If my goal is bladesmithing I expect to be working with steel with some carbon content. I’m not sure what “low carbon content” amounts to but do you think electric rod welding will be adquate?

 

[sbrothy]

It kinda sounds like MIG welding is the place to start.

 

[DeBangis21]

Cheapest and relatively easiest to learn is arc welding, other names: MMA, SMAW, stick welding. The welding set up is more economically affordable than others. You need either transformer or inverter welding machine.

MIG (GMAW), TIG (GTAW), SMAW (MMA), FCAW are electric arc welding methods/types.
Other types are electron beam, forge, gravity, laser, soldering/brazing welding, etc.

 

[DeBangis21]

It kinda sounds like MIG welding is the place to start.

And the type of welding method applied depends on the work/material nature.

 

[Flyboy]

Other types are electron beam, forge, gravity, laser, soldering/brazing welding, etc.

Given the bladesmithing aspect OP mentioned, forge welding is definitely something worth learning.

Soldering and brazing are good for use with oxyacetylene. Just run a carburizing/slightly fuel rich flame and you should get excellent results.

E-beam and laser welding… wheeeee. Those are absolutely some industrial processes that require extremely specialized and expensive equipment and facilities. I’ve had the pleasure of touring facilities for both operations and they’re damn impressive.

 

[DeBangis21]

A useful link for every technical stuff you want learn, visit www.mig-weldingforum.co.uk

 

[DeBangis21]

A useful link for every technical stuff you want learn, visit www.mig-welding.co.uk

 

[DeBangis21]

TL;DR Summary: What's the most versatile welding type? *Stick welding.

I've watched a couple of DIY videos and one of them talked about TACK-welding *(=tacking: a temporary weld just to keep two pieces in place before proper welding). I'm a little overwhelmed with how many welding types there seem to be. Oxyacetylene welding equipment seems to be the cheapest, but which one of them all is the most versatile / useful in most cases? *MMA

Also, which one is the easiest to learn *SMAW* and the least dangerous for a beginner to start with? *all have some effects, just make sure to use PPE.

Regards.

 

[sophiecentaur]

If my goal is bladesmithing I expect to be working with steel with some carbon content.

I would have through that bladesmithing would not suit welding because a blade needs to have even temperature (and alloy mixture) Welding is, surely, strictly local and the mix will vary all over the blade.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Given the bladesmithing aspect OP mentioned, forge welding is definitely something worth learning.

Totally agree - horses for courses.

 

[DeBangis21]

I assure you I have the utmost respect for equipment that can blind or spectarcularly remove you from the gene pool.

OMG! That's one of the dangers of this art and craft.
I severally heard of fatal accidents where a tradesman is welding an empty petroleum tank without first evacuating (don't know the technical term for it) the remnant gaseous amount.

 

[sbrothy]

Given the bladesmithing aspect OP mentioned, forge welding is definitely something worth learning.

Soldering and brazing are good for use with oxyacetylene. Just run a carburizing/slightly fuel rich flame and you should get excellent results.

E-beam and laser welding… wheeeee. Those are absolutely some industrial processes that require extremely specialized and expensive equipment and facilities. I’ve had the pleasure of touring facilities for both operations and they’re damn impressive.

Forge welding is a given. But that's more about temperature and the actual forge, no? As I understand it I don't need additional specialized apparatus (apart perhaps from a hydraulic press) to forge weld two metal surfaces together.

The laser thing was me having a pipe dream I suspect. Disregard that. :)

 

[sbrothy]

And the type of welding method applied depends on the work/material nature.

As with most tools. That's why I have another dream of owning a plasma torch.

 

[Baluncore]

Forge welding is a given. But that's more about temperature and the actual forge, no? As I understand it I don't need additional specialized apparatus (apart perhaps from a hydraulic press) to forge weld two metal surfaces together.

The problem with forge welding iron alloys, is that the carbon in the steel will burn in contact with an oxygen atmosphere.
A blacksmith's open-forge welding, only works with very low carbon steel, wrought iron.
To forge weld mild to high carbon steel, requires a closed furnace with a controlled oxygen free atmosphere.

Nitriding and carbon case-hardening of surfaces is also done in a closed furnace. The item is packed with the powder, in a mild steel box, welded closed, then placed in the furnace or kiln for 12 to 48 hours at a carefully controlled temperature. The time and temperature controls the depth of surface penetration and hardening. A cooler furnace causes less distortion of machine parts. The core of the article remains unchanged, apart from any deep heat treatment following removal.

 

[berkeman]

A little welder humor seems appropriate at this point...

https://www.facebook.com/MorePerfUnion/photos/a.205298047986413/454369926412556/?type=3

 

[Lnewqban]

If my goal is bladesmithing I expect to be working with steel with some carbon content. I’m not sure what “low carbon content” amounts to but do you think electric rod welding will be adequate?

Any type of welding is more difficult as more carbon, or higher content of other minerals and metals (as an alloy), steel has.

Once the temperature is elevated locally to induce fusion of the metal, several chemical transformations happen that tend to work against a good weld.

Once the temperature is reduced after that local fusion, many internal tensions and stresses appear, which tend to deform the part (fused localized material does not expand as solid would, but contracts itself as it cools, strongly pulling the material surrounding (more brittle for higher percent of carbon) it as it cools down.

As mentioned above, the fused metal in presence of oxygen suffers accelerated oxidation (think oxy-cut), which produces oxides and other substances that contaminate the weld (that is the reason for the use of a constant flow of inert gases completely bathing the area being welded).

Hammering steel at temperatures close to fusion can shape and create good permanent bonds of two parts, while all areas are heated and cooled at the same rate.

Please, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxy-fuel_welding_and_cutting

https://www.cedengineering.com/userfiles/D06-002 - Fundamentals of Gas Cutting and Welding - US.pdf

https://www.osha.gov/sites/default/files/publications/OSHA_FS-3647_Welding.pdf

 

[Flyboy]

I would have through that bladesmithing would not suit welding because a blade needs to have even temperature (and alloy mixture) Welding is, surely, strictly local and the mix will vary all over the blade.

Well, there’s some practical use cases, especially for damascus or laminate steel construction. A very common modern approach is to MIG weld the corners of a stack of plates together to make forge welding of the initial billet much more controllable. Likewise, if making a canister damascus, you will need to weld the canister mostly closed, aside from a vent for gases to escape as it heats.

 

[DeBangis21]

A little welder humor seems appropriate at this point...


View attachment 346411
https://www.facebook.com/MorePerfUnion/photos/a.205298047986413/454369926412556/?type=3

Haha! :D
Mod @berkeman , thanks for that refreshment.

 

[sophiecentaur]

I'd agree but you don't buy a MIG welder to learn how to make blades; it's not a major part of the process but a helpful but not necessary bit. They had no MIG facility in Old Damascus. In fact, I would suggest that the best, most stress free way of cold welding would be to start at one end of the sandwich and contro the force and angle of the hammer blows to keep the strip straight.
Blade making is really hardly relevant for someone who is just beginning to learn metalwork. It would be trying to run before you can walk. Start with soft soldering, move on to brazing and go through the whole gamut of processes in a proper order. If you don't, you can pick up some bad habits which will limit your success in the long run. No one wants to become a Bodger. (Do as I say and not as I do.)

 

[sbrothy]

Well, in an uncontrollable fit of shoveling money out of the window I think I actually managed to order a propane blade forge and a plasma torch.

I'm not completely sure if the plasma thingy I ordered is a plasma cutter only, and capable of nothing else, but we'll see. It was quite expensive but not excessively so, and looked quite effective. Menacing even.

The forge (which can be opened at both ends) is a blade forge made of steel with 2 propane flames, which I'm sure will be practical if I decide to make a Spartha or Katana as my first project.

Yes, I know: In actual fact my first project will - with luck - be a door stopper, or if I'm really really lucky maybe a beer opener.

I'll post some pictures when I get around to it.

 

[sbrothy]

Well, there’s some practical use cases, especially for damascus or laminate steel construction. A very common modern approach is to MIG weld the corners of a stack of plates together to make forge welding of the initial billet much more controllable. Likewise, if making a canister damascus, you will need to weld the canister mostly closed, aside from a vent for gases to escape as it heats.

This is exactly what I hoped the plasma torch would accomplish. That is: making the billet (after every piece have been cleaned and polished of course). I'll see...

 

[sbrothy]

Well, there’s some practical use cases, especially for damascus or laminate steel construction. A very common modern approach is to MIG weld the corners of a stack of plates together to make forge welding of the initial billet much more controllable. Likewise, if making a canister damascus, you will need to weld the canister mostly closed, aside from a vent for gases to escape as it heats.

Sorry for coming back to this so late, but I think I've been bothered unconsciously by your canister vent hole remark there. I've never seen anyone on the program "Forged in Fire" make, or even hint of, such a hole.

Searching online I can at least see that it's not unheard of, though I naively thought you were supposed to fill the canister to the very brink using powdered metal and weld it completely shut.

Not so apparently. You care to share some experience or should I just RTFM?

 

[Flyboy]

My concern is about the pressure buildup in a fully sealed canister as you heat it to forging temperature. I could be wrong, but it seems dangerous to have it completely enclosed.

 

[sbrothy]

A legitimate concern surely. I'll make sure I read up on this very carefully before aspiring to a Darwin Award!

Thanks.

 

[Baluncore]

I could be wrong, but it seems dangerous to have it completely enclosed.

You need to be a good welder, to seal a box on the first attempt. There will always be a pin-hole that will allow the escape of internal gas pressure in a small furnace, if there was not, then the faces of the box will bulge with the heat, before a seam will open sufficiently. But don't rely on that.

In big scrap iron furnaces, there are minimum hole sizes required in otherwise closed vessels entering the scrap flow. That is to prevent explosions, and high speed jets of expanding-gas, that might otherwise endanger the operators or the furnace.

 

[sbrothy]

My plasma torch arrived and the manual says it's also capable of TIG-welding (which I then read is the most difficult to master, just my luck). But with some training I'm sure it'll be OK.

Incidentally, the manual also says that it shouldn't be operated if the humidity exceeds 80%, which I'm pretty sure it often does here in Denmark. But in a properly ventilated shop that shouldn't be a problem. I'm not gonna be welding on the beach after all. :)