UK Street Lights: Essex Turning Off 11-5 - Cool or Not?

[wolram]

I am hearing mutterings over the radio that parts of uk may be turning off
the street lights in the early hours, Essex was mentioned, hang on now i
hear 11 to 5, cool or not?

 

[Danger]

NO! Are they daft?! That's when they're needed most, unless the whole bloody city goes dormant in those hours. The whole point of street lights is that they come on when it's dark out.

 

[Astronuc]

I am hearing mutterings over the radio that parts of uk may be turning off the street lights in the early hours, Essex was mentioned, hang on now i hear 11 to 5, cool or not?

To save money or maintain margin to stability of the grid. If it's hot and people are using air-conditioners, then perhaps the demand on the electrical grid is pushing a limit - usually with marging to the failure limit.

In parts of the US, there is a risk for brown-outs or black-outs this summer - especially if the heat wave continues.

 

[J77]

Only a selfish idiot would need A/C in the UK.

Strange they should turn the lights off - bet they wish they could do that to the leaking water

 

[wolram]

Seem the idea is to save money, (there could be other reasons) but
not stated, i think it will be great if the lights go out, for more than one reason.

As for the Uk curing its water leaks heck that would be harder than laughing at Dangers jokes

 

[Evo]

Aren't the lights supposed to be for people's safety?

 

[Astronuc]

Aren't the lights supposed to be for people's safety?

Yes, urban street lighting does reduce crime because the visibility means certain people are less likely to commit a crime.

But then there is the "cost/benefit" factor. A government may decide to reduce cost by turning off lights (reducing cost of electricity), as long as the cost of crime doesn't exceed the cost of electricity - or something like that.

 

[Pengwuino]

Around here, they began shutting down every other street light during the 'energy crisis'. Cut the electricity used by a substantial amount while really not creating much room for concern since the lights tended to be really close together in the first place.

 

[Evo]

Yes, urban street lighting does reduce crime because the visibility means certain people are less likely to commit a crime.

But then there is the "cost/benefit" factor. A government may decide to reduce cost by turning off lights (reducing cost of electricity), as long as the cost of crime doesn't exceed the cost of electricity - or something like that.

What kills my here is that at night you see empty buildings with every single light left on. My company is a terrible abuser when it comes to electricity.

I think endagering lives by turning off street lights is a foolish way to save a couple of bucks. Surely there are less dangerous ways to cut costs.

 

[wolram]

Yes, urban street lighting does reduce crime because the visibility means certain people are less likely to commit a crime.

But then there is the "cost/benefit" factor. A government may decide to reduce cost by turning off lights (reducing cost of electricity), as long as the cost of crime doesn't exceed the cost of electricity - or something like that.

I think solving crime is not very high on any agenda in the uk, i have some personal accounts of when criminals could have been caught red handed, if
the nearest copper was not 50 miles away handing out speeding tickets.

The police are very generous though, they give you a crime number, may be
the following day, if they are not to busy on the roads, or locked in non operational police stations doing paper work.

 

[Pengwuino]

I think solving crime is not very high on any agenda in the uk, i have some personal accounts of when criminals could have been caught red handed, if
the nearest copper was not 50 miles away handing out speeding tickets.

Well if he was 50 miles away...

 

[Anttech]

Someone should tell the Belgiums that. They waste so much energy lighting up Highways/Motorways at night, its crazy. Only country I know that does it.

 

[Pengwuino]

Someone should tell the Belgiums that. They waste so much energy lighting up Highways/Motorways at night, its crazy. Only country I know that does it.

Our freeways are blacked out at night for the most part!

 

[wolram]

Surely there are less dangerous ways to cut costs.

There is,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3086905.stm

But that would mean shifting anyone caught to some other benift system,
we brits throw our money about like ticker tape.

 

[wolram]

Well if he was 50 miles away...

Speeding tickets are more important than crime solving, take the cops off the road and put some on the street.

 

[wolram]

Our freeways are blacked out at night for the most part!

Well at least you are safe.

 

[Danger]

Crime prevention isn't the issue in my town, although it probably cuts down a lot on kid-type vandalism (which there's too much of anyhow). It's more a matter of people being able to see where they're going when walking at night, without having to lug flashlights around everywhere. It's no fun to trip over a curb or a thistle growing out of a sidewalk crack, or much worse stuff along the streets without sidewalks.

As for the Uk curing its water leaks heck that would be harder than laughing at Dangers jokes

That's only fair; I have a lot of trouble not laughing at your serious posts.

 

[wolram]

Crime prevention isn't the issue in my town, although it probably cuts down a lot on kid-type vandalism (which there's too much of anyhow). It's more a matter of people being able to see where they're going when walking at night, without having to lug flashlights around everywhere. It's no fun to trip over a curb or a thistle growing out of a sidewalk crack, or much worse stuff along the streets without sidewalks.


That's only fair; I have a lot of trouble not laughing at your serious posts.

Serious posts

I guess this 24/7 thing is growing, in my youth every respectable person was in bed by 10.

 

[Danger]

Well of course, before they had artificial lighting...

 

[chroot]

Guys,

The truth is... that lighting has almost no correlation with crime.

From:
http://www.darksky.org/resources/information-sheets/is063.html

In particular, while there is no statistically significant evidence that street lighting impacts the level of crime, especially if crime displacement is taken into account, there is a strong indication that increased lighting - perhaps lighting uniformity - decreases the fear of crime.

That's right... those brightly-lit areas aren't actually any safer; the lighting just makes you think they are.

Also from the International Dark Sky Association:

There are anecdotal reports of increased crime and vandalism after the installation of lights. An article in Building Operator (see IDA Information Sheet 54) discusses how school districts across the country are actually turning off lights on school grounds to reduce vandalism.

Oh yeah -- criminals need light to see what they're doing, too!

I firmly support the idea of reducing urban lighting to the minimum necessary, for numerous reasons.

- Warren

 

[Kurdt]

I'm pretty sure its to meet the requirements for reduced carbon emissions but it seems rather silly. There are other ways of doing it like switching to solar storage lighting but that's a bit costly.

 

[Moonbear]

We don't have street lights around here, just in the downtown area where there are a lot of pedestrians at night. I really like it. When you're driving, you can just use the high beams if it's too dark, and when you're home, there's no bright streetlight shining in the window. I hated that about Cincinnati. The street I lived on had a ton of streetlights...one shined in the window from each side of the house. I could walk around the house at night with no lights on at all and not have to fear tripping over anything. I would go for my evening walks a few blocks over, where it was no longer within city limits, and that township didn't bother with streetlights. It was so much more pleasant. I always wished I had noticed that difference when I was buying my house, because it would have been nicer to buy one just the few blocks over.

And, I don't buy the correlation with crime either, other than when places have high crime, people think putting in lights will help. From my travels, I've noticed more ne'er do wells hanging around under streetlamps at night than on the dark streets with no lighting. If anything, it seems to attract them because they can see to count their money as they make their deals.

 

[wolram]

Chroot and MoonB, thumbs up.

 

[Pengwuino]

I agree with chroot! On our freeways, there's barely any crime at night!

I guess that does make sense though... a criminal stupid enough to do something right on the street probably isn't smart enough to be able to operate in the dark.

 

[wolram]

I agree with chroot! On our freeways, there's barely any crime at night!

I guess that does make sense though... a criminal stupid enough to do something right on the street probably isn't smart enough to be able to operate in the dark.

I want you to check that out Pengwuino, go do a survey, stop a few cars,
you will be ok.

 

[NoTime]

I've never understood lighting up highways.
I find it really annoying.
You should have some basic safety equipment, like a working flashlight (or two), in your car anyway.

If you are walking around at night, an active light source can go a long way in keeping you from being run over.

 

[wolram]

And the thing is ,not only are there more street/ highway lights every year, they get more intence.

 

[Moonbear]

I've never understood lighting up highways.
I find it really annoying.
You should have some basic safety equipment, like a working flashlight (or two), in your car anyway.

If you are walking around at night, an active light source can go a long way in keeping you from being run over.

The only place the lack of lighting is a noticeable problem is at off-ramps. It's really nice if you can see where they are before you nearly run off the road. Most places I've been, even if they don't put lights on the highway do put them on the off-ramps, but I've also been a few places where they didn't have lights even there, and that was challenging.

 

[wolram]

Well of course, before they had artificial lighting...

Danger, go be a good citizen and pull up some of those thistles growing from you pavements

 

[NoTime]

The only place the lack of lighting is a noticeable problem is at off-ramps. It's really nice if you can see where they are before you nearly run off the road. Most places I've been, even if they don't put lights on the highway do put them on the off-ramps, but I've also been a few places where they didn't have lights even there, and that was challenging.

In VT they often put a lamp at intersections on major roads.
It does help find that little sideroad slotted in amongst all the trees and bushes. Even in the daytime the lampost often is easier to find than the street.

I wouldn't mind the off ramp lighting so much, but places like CT just light the highway end to end

 

[Danger]

Danger, go be a good citizen and pull up some of those thistles growing from you pavements

Pull them up?! You great flying lunatic! Cut the tops off is how to do it! If I pull them up, what the hell would I have to make my wine from next year?

 

[Moonbear]

In VT they often put a lamp at intersections on major roads.
It does help find that little sideroad slotted in amongst all the trees and bushes. Even in the daytime the lampost often is easier to find than the street.

I wish we had that around here. There are a few side roads that go pretty steeply downhill between a bunch of trees...you pretty much have to just have faith that there is a road there until you've made the turn onto it.

I wouldn't mind the off ramp lighting so much, but places like CT just light the highway end to end

That's pretty much how it is in NJ too...I think the roads are like that all the way down through DC at least, with the exception of some stretches down in South Jersey, but that's changing as that gets overcrowded now too. When I moved away from NJ, it actually took me a while to adjust to night driving in the dark...I kept thinking, "Why can't these crazy people put up street lights so you can see where you're going!" But, I adjusted pretty quickly, and I really only had trouble at the on and off ramps of some really dark roads. It wasn't like there was a steady stream of cars around though, so I could slow down a lot and just look for it without driving anyone else bonkers. After then moving back to places with lots of street lights, I realized I preferred not having them. I have a hard enough time sleeping at night without the place being constantly lit up by bright lights.