- #1
ChrisVer
Gold Member
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Well I am not sure if this thread belongs here or in mathematics/groups but since it also has to do with physics, I think SR would be the correct place.
An element of the Euclidean group [itex]E(n)[/itex] can be written in the form [itex](O,\vec{b})[/itex] which acts:
[itex] \vec{x} \rightharpoondown O\vec{x}+\vec{b}[/itex]
With [itex]O \in O(n)[/itex] and [itex] \vec{b} \in R^{n}[/itex]
This would mean that the vector [itex]\vec{x}[/itex] would be rotated by some angle and then translated by a vector.
Now I'm having a certain problem. Since it's a group, the multiplication of two of its elements should be an element itself.
this I write:
[itex](O_{2},\vec{b_{2}})(O_{1},\vec{b_{1}})\vec{x}[/itex]
giving:
[itex](O_{2},\vec{b_{2}}) (O_{1}\vec{x}+\vec{b_{1}})[/itex]
From here I followed two paths which I think the first gives a wrong answer, while I'm pretty sure the 2nd gives the correct one... However I don't understand what's their difference.
wrong path
[itex](O_{2},\vec{b_{2}}) (O_{1}\vec{x}+\vec{b_{1}})=(O_{2},\vec{b_{2}}) O_{1}\vec{x}+(O_{2},\vec{b_{2}}) \vec{b_{1}}[/itex]
which gives:
[itex]O_{2} O_{1}\vec{x}+\vec{b_{2}} +O_{2} \vec{b_{1}} + \vec{b_{2}}[/itex]
see the two times of [itex]\vec{b_{2}}[/itex] appearing
correct path
I write that:
[itex](O_{2},\vec{b_{2}}) (O_{1}\vec{x}+\vec{b_{1}})=(O_{2},\vec{b_{2}}) \vec{x_{2}}[/itex]
So I get:
[itex]O_{2}\vec{x_{2}}+\vec{b_{2}}[/itex]
and reentering the definition of [itex]x_{2}=O_{1}\vec{x}+\vec{b_{1}}[/itex] I get:
[itex]O_{2}O_{1}\vec{x}+O_{2}\vec{b_{1}}+\vec{b_{2}}[/itex]
So here we have [itex]\vec{b_{2}}[/itex] only once...
I was able to distinguish the correct from the wrong due to physical imaging (by double rotations and translations), however I don't understand (or more precisely see) what's the difference (and so the wrong in the 1st case) between the two approaches...
An element of the Euclidean group [itex]E(n)[/itex] can be written in the form [itex](O,\vec{b})[/itex] which acts:
[itex] \vec{x} \rightharpoondown O\vec{x}+\vec{b}[/itex]
With [itex]O \in O(n)[/itex] and [itex] \vec{b} \in R^{n}[/itex]
This would mean that the vector [itex]\vec{x}[/itex] would be rotated by some angle and then translated by a vector.
Now I'm having a certain problem. Since it's a group, the multiplication of two of its elements should be an element itself.
this I write:
[itex](O_{2},\vec{b_{2}})(O_{1},\vec{b_{1}})\vec{x}[/itex]
giving:
[itex](O_{2},\vec{b_{2}}) (O_{1}\vec{x}+\vec{b_{1}})[/itex]
From here I followed two paths which I think the first gives a wrong answer, while I'm pretty sure the 2nd gives the correct one... However I don't understand what's their difference.
wrong path
[itex](O_{2},\vec{b_{2}}) (O_{1}\vec{x}+\vec{b_{1}})=(O_{2},\vec{b_{2}}) O_{1}\vec{x}+(O_{2},\vec{b_{2}}) \vec{b_{1}}[/itex]
which gives:
[itex]O_{2} O_{1}\vec{x}+\vec{b_{2}} +O_{2} \vec{b_{1}} + \vec{b_{2}}[/itex]
see the two times of [itex]\vec{b_{2}}[/itex] appearing
correct path
I write that:
[itex](O_{2},\vec{b_{2}}) (O_{1}\vec{x}+\vec{b_{1}})=(O_{2},\vec{b_{2}}) \vec{x_{2}}[/itex]
So I get:
[itex]O_{2}\vec{x_{2}}+\vec{b_{2}}[/itex]
and reentering the definition of [itex]x_{2}=O_{1}\vec{x}+\vec{b_{1}}[/itex] I get:
[itex]O_{2}O_{1}\vec{x}+O_{2}\vec{b_{1}}+\vec{b_{2}}[/itex]
So here we have [itex]\vec{b_{2}}[/itex] only once...
I was able to distinguish the correct from the wrong due to physical imaging (by double rotations and translations), however I don't understand (or more precisely see) what's the difference (and so the wrong in the 1st case) between the two approaches...
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