- #1
majid hussain
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Why can't we adopt Vertical Take Off (VTO) and vertical landing in commercial aircraft?
Vertical Take Off: Adopting VTO & Vertical Landing in Commercial Aircraft
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In summary: Airplanes are not practical in the sense that for a large aircraft to have VTO and landing capability the engine thrust has to be scaled up enormously, they'd have to carry more fuel they would weigh more so their payload capability would be limited. Even tilt wing and tilt rotor aircraft have an upper limit on lift capacity (power to weight). We do have aircraft called air cranes which have a larger lifting capacity (these are basically helicopters) designed and propose built to lift heavy loads. But even if you could modify one to carry passengers you wouldn't have the speed the range or the altitude of any traditional aircraft design.
- #2
russ_watters
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Commercial aircraft have very low power to weight ratios. Putting in bigger engines or engines that don't work as well at high speed is a trade-off that isn't worth it.
- #3
majid hussain
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Umm... can u imagine flood recovery aircraft..? It can take off and land during flood
- #4
SteamKing
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That's not an application for a commercial aircraft, though.majid hussain said:
They already have aircraft which can land and take off during floods - they're called helicopters.
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billy_joule
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majid hussain said:
Why would comercial (ie long haul) aircraft be used in flooded areas? What advantage does it have over helicopters (Or Osprey I guess)?
Can you imagine doing this with a VTOL 747? The Rescuee would be cooked to a crisp in the jetblast
- #6
majid hussain
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But think about airplanes in a flooded airportSteamKing said:That's not an application for a commercial aircraft, though.
They already have aircraft which can land and take off during floods - they're called helicopters.
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billy_joule
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I'd guess the percentage of all commercial flights that are grounded due to runway flooding is around 0.0001% ie totally inconsequential, or do you have evidence to the contrary?majid hussain said:
Even if it where a problem the obvious, and cheapest solution would be better airport design.
Why not calculate how many more engines a 747 would require for VTO? Do you think it's a viable aircraft design?
- #8
SteamKing
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If the airplanes at a flooded airport didn't take off before the flood, then there's something wrong besides the planes not being VTOL capable.majid hussain said:
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Ronie Bayron
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You mean the below?majid hussain said:
- #10
majid hussain
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This is an amphibian aircraft so it can land and take off from water...but what about this below pic.Ronie Bayron said:You mean the below?
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- #12
russ_watters
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Airports are designed not to flood, so if they do it must be due to a rare/significant natural disaster. It doesn't make sense to design commercial airplanes to operate in such rare/extreme conditions. Heck, if the airport is flooded, the passengers can't get there anyway!
- #13
gjonesy
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They aren't practical in the sense that for a large aircraft to have VTO and landing capability the engine thrust has to be scaled up enormously, they'd have to carry more fuel they would weigh more so their payload capability would be limited. Even tilt wing and tilt rotor aircraft have an upper limit on lift capacity (power to weight). We do have aircraft called air cranes which have a larger lifting capacity (these are basically helicopters) designed and propose built to lift heavy loads. But even if you could modify one to carry passengers you wouldn't have the speed the range or the altitude of any traditional aircraft design.
- #14
gjonesy
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Just to give you an Idea of the thrust involved to achieving VTOL in a jet aircraft here are the numbersHarrier Jump Jet, power to weightThrust
15,000 lbf (66.7 kN)
21,800 lbf (97.0 kN)
21,800 lbf (97.0 kN)
24,750 lbf (110 kN)
23,500 lbf (105 kN)
Maximum take-off weight
(short takeoff)
17,000 lb (7,710 kg)
26,000 lb (11,800 kg)
26,200 lb (11,900 kg)
31,000 lb (14,100 kg)
31,000 lb (14,100 kg)
F135 VTOL raptor power to weight
Thrust/weight
• full fuel:
• 50% fuel:
0.87
1.07
0.90
1.04
0.75
0.91
F136 is capable of producing more thrust than the 43,000 lbf (190 kN) of early F135s. In testing, the F135 has demonstrated a maximum thrust of over 50,000 lbf
Max takeoff weight
70,000 lb class (31,800 kg)
60,000 lb class (27,300 kg)
70,000 lb class (31,800 kg)
15,000 lbf (66.7 kN)
21,800 lbf (97.0 kN)
21,800 lbf (97.0 kN)
24,750 lbf (110 kN)
23,500 lbf (105 kN)
Maximum take-off weight
(short takeoff)
17,000 lb (7,710 kg)
26,000 lb (11,800 kg)
26,200 lb (11,900 kg)
31,000 lb (14,100 kg)
31,000 lb (14,100 kg)
F135 VTOL raptor power to weight
Thrust/weight
• full fuel:
• 50% fuel:
0.87
1.07
0.90
1.04
0.75
0.91
F136 is capable of producing more thrust than the 43,000 lbf (190 kN) of early F135s. In testing, the F135 has demonstrated a maximum thrust of over 50,000 lbf
Max takeoff weight
70,000 lb class (31,800 kg)
60,000 lb class (27,300 kg)
70,000 lb class (31,800 kg)
- #15
Nidum
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STOL is a more practical idea than VTOL for commercial aircraft .
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/design/design.html
http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/design/design.html
- #16
FAQ: Vertical Take Off: Adopting VTO & Vertical Landing in Commercial Aircraft
What are the benefits of using vertical takeoff and landing in commercial aircraft?
Vertical takeoff and landing (VTO & VTL) technology allows aircraft to take off and land vertically, eliminating the need for long runways and reducing the required space for airports. This can lead to more efficient use of urban and suburban areas, and also reduce the time and cost associated with building and maintaining traditional runways. Additionally, VTO & VTL can potentially increase safety and reduce noise pollution compared to traditional takeoff and landing methods.
How does vertical takeoff and landing technology work?
VTO & VTL technology uses a combination of powerful engines and rotors to create lift and thrust for vertical flight. These engines and rotors can be angled to provide forward propulsion for horizontal flight once the aircraft is in the air. Some aircraft also use additional lift-generating devices, such as flaps or blown air, to assist with takeoff and landing.
Are there any challenges or limitations to using VTO & VTL in commercial aircraft?
One of the main challenges of VTO & VTL technology is the amount of power and fuel required for vertical flight. This can impact the weight and size of the aircraft, as well as its range and payload capacity. Additionally, precise control and coordination are necessary to ensure safe takeoff and landing in varying weather conditions. Currently, VTO & VTL technology is primarily used in military and experimental aircraft, with ongoing research and development for commercial applications.
How does VTO & VTL technology impact the design of commercial aircraft?
VTO & VTL technology requires a different design approach compared to traditional aircraft, as it needs to be able to take off and land vertically, as well as fly horizontally. This can result in unique features such as rotors, engines, and lift-generating devices, as well as modifications to the fuselage and wing designs. Additionally, the weight and balance of the aircraft must be carefully considered to ensure safe and efficient flight.
Are there any current commercial aircraft that use VTO & VTL technology?
While there are currently no commercial aircraft in regular service that use VTO & VTL technology, there are several prototypes and experimental aircraft being developed by various companies. For example, the Airbus A3 Vahana and the Bell Nexus are both electric vertical takeoff and landing (eVTOL) aircraft designed for urban air mobility. These aircraft are still undergoing testing and certification, with plans for potential commercial use in the near future.