Very long solenoid ampere law paradox?

In summary, the conversation discusses the behavior of magnetic fields inside materials of different permeability and the implications of this on experiments involving solenoids and amperian loops. The concept of magnetic poles forming at the interface between materials is also mentioned.
  • #1
reaper929
4
0
Hello

I have been doing some thinking related to Ampere law and behaviour of magnetic field inside materials of different permeability. In the process, I came up with the following thought experiment:

Try imagining a very long solenoid with steady current I. Turns of the solenoid are circular. The magnetic field generated by the solenoid is something like the one that is shown in this picture:

http://www.siemon.com/uk/white_papers/images/06-05-01-magnets5.gif

Let us assume that the solenoid is in vacuum. We expect an uniform B/H field inside. Where, B and H are related by: B=μ0H

H can be easily calculated as the function of number of turns, length of the coil and the amount of current.

If we take an amperian loop that coincides with one of the lines of force shown in the previous picture, for example, the uppermost, we should obtain a nonzero circulation of the H field which should be equal to the total current enclosed by the loop.

In the second experiment, we do almost everything the same, expect that the coil isn't in vacuum. We insert 2 materials of different magnetic permeability inside the coil so that they have a sharp and well defined boundary.

It goes something like this:

AIR-MATERIAL1-MATERIAL2-AIR

If we take boundary conditions for B/H fields, we obtain that the normal component of B should be continuous and tangetial component is nonexistent. So, it seems that the B vector goes unchanged. Which means that H vector is different in different materials. It is equal to B divided by the permeability of the material.

If we take the same amperian loop, we should now obtain a different result. But the sum of enclosed currents hasn't changed.

Is that a paradox or I'm missing something obvious?
 
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  • #2
In the pole model of magnetism, magnetic poles form at the magnetic material/air interface. It is at this point that the ## H ## field undergoes a discontinuous change, even though the ## B ## is continuous across these poles. The ## H ## field from these poles is conservative, so that ## \oint H \cdot dl=0 ## for the ## H ## of the poles. The result is ## \oint H \cdot dl=NI ##, basically the MMF equation for transformers. This result is particularly useful in solving transformer problems, especially those with an air gap. See also: https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...ly-the-biot-savart.927681/page-3#post-5996404
 

FAQ: Very long solenoid ampere law paradox?

1. What is the Very Long Solenoid Ampere Law Paradox?

The Very Long Solenoid Ampere Law Paradox is a hypothetical contradiction that arises when attempting to apply Ampere's Law to a very long solenoid. It involves the idea that, according to Ampere's Law, the magnetic field inside a solenoid should be constant and independent of the length of the solenoid. However, in reality, as the solenoid becomes longer and longer, the magnetic field inside it approaches zero.

2. How does the Very Long Solenoid Ampere Law Paradox challenge Ampere's Law?

The Very Long Solenoid Ampere Law Paradox challenges Ampere's Law by showing that, in certain situations, the law does not accurately predict the behavior of magnetic fields. It highlights the limitations of Ampere's Law and the need for more complex equations, such as the Biot-Savart Law, to fully describe magnetic fields.

3. What is the significance of the Very Long Solenoid Ampere Law Paradox?

The Very Long Solenoid Ampere Law Paradox is significant because it demonstrates the importance of understanding the limitations of scientific laws and theories. It also showcases the need for further research and development in the field of electromagnetism to fully understand and explain complex phenomena.

4. How can the Very Long Solenoid Ampere Law Paradox be resolved?

There are several proposed solutions to the Very Long Solenoid Ampere Law Paradox. One is to modify Ampere's Law to include a term for magnetic field decay over distance. Another solution is to take into account the finite size of the solenoid and the resulting edge effects. Further research and experimentation are needed to determine the most accurate resolution.

5. How does the Very Long Solenoid Ampere Law Paradox relate to real-world applications?

The Very Long Solenoid Ampere Law Paradox has implications for various real-world applications, such as the design and functionality of MRI machines and other medical devices that use magnetic fields. It also highlights the complexity of electromagnetic phenomena and the need for accurate and advanced models to fully understand and utilize them.

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