Waiting for a Job Offer - Should I Accept Less Due to Age?

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In summary, the individual in the conversation received a call from a recruiter for a technical sales manager position at a small company. After a successful interview, the company offered to redefine the position to include international sales and training as an application engineer. However, they seem fixated on the individual's current compensation and their age. The individual has stressed that they should be compensated based on their responsibilities and not their age or current salary. There is also some uncertainty about whether the international sales job is actually being offered or if it is a position that a current domestic sales director would move into. The individual has encouraged the company to give other candidates a fair chance and has expressed their desire to be compensated based on their qualifications and not their current salary.
  • #36
DaveC426913 said:
Sounds to me like they are looking to you for guidance and leadership.

Why don't you take the bull by the horns? Tell them what they need, how you can fulfill it, and what paltry sum you'll charge them to take their company to the next level? It's not a salary; it's an investment with an ROI!

Well, I kind of did. After interviews, I send an e-mail thanking each person in attendance for their time and include something a little personal ("hope that thing with such-and-such works out for you").

When I wrote to the president I included a note that said something along the lines of:

[President],

[The recruiter] keeps trying to get me to give him a salary figure. I've tried to explain to him that things seem to be evolving in new directions. Is the job title still going to be "regional sales manager?" [Recruiter] thinks so, but I've gotten a slightly different impression, especially after our one-on-one yesterday.

Just to be clear, I'm willing to take on as much responsibility as you care to entrust to me. I'm willing to make [company] my company and its success my job. I have exactly what you're looking for. I have a few ideas for new applications of your equipment, and I'd love to brainstorm with you engineers. I have this incredible gut feeling that you've got something a lot of people are looking for and we just need to find a way to get them connected with [company] and get them educated.

There are two ways to be heard in a conversation, [president]: you can speak the loudest, or you can have the most interesting things to say.

[Company] has some very interesting things to say.

Hope to hear from you soon,
[Flex]
 
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  • #37
DaveC426913 said:
Why don't you take the bull by the horns? Tell them what they need, how you can fulfill it, and what paltry sum you'll charge them to take their company to the next level? It's not a salary; it's an investment with an ROI!

In a nutshell I agree. From what you've written on this thread they are definitely interested in you, forget what the recruiter says. They want you, and they want you for as little as possible. You've apparently exceeded their expectations and I doubt that they want to see you go.
 
  • #38
Yeah Flex, it sure does seem like the ball is in your court, and that this is an opportunity handed to you on a plate to impress them with your value (both kinds).
 
  • #39
Still nothing! I'm starting to think I really biffed the second interview or something.

EDIT: Or maybe he found this thread, and then searched for other posts by me and discovered my dark side...
 
  • #40
FlexGunship said:
Still nothing! I'm starting to think I really biffed the second interview or something.

EDIT: Or maybe he found this thread, and then searched for other posts by me and discovered my dark side...

In the second interview did you feel confident enough to refer to yourself as FlexGunship?
 
  • #41
dacruick said:
In the second interview did you feel confident enough to refer to yourself as FlexGunship?

Oh, sure. I also kicked over a garbage can and asked if he was "ready to rock."

As it turns out, he was not.

(Side note, since I kind of ctrl-c'd and ctrl-v'd my letter to him into this thread, a simple search would've revealed this thread. Google is a wonderful and mysterious thing.)

Got a brief e-mail response. The role has been broadened to either "Key Accounts Manager" or "National Sales Engineer." I was hoping for CEO, but... oh well... The offer hasn't come yet (if there is one), he simply said they'd be in touch "shortly." I'm hoping for at least $11.50/hr plus free snacks from the vending machine.

EDIT: I noticed, suspiciously, that both titles don't exist in the Salary.com database. Oh grumble.

DOUBLE EDIT: Seriously, though, I hope it comes soon, there's this project I've been working on which has got me really frustrated and I don't want to keep working on it. Essentially I'm trying to find the least common denominator of 1/2 and 1/3 whose denominator is expressible as 2N where N is an integer.

TRIPLE EDIT: That double edit was kind of a joke, actually. I wouldn't leave a job to avoid a project. I would, however, leave a job to avoid a co-worker.
 
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  • #42
UPDATE:

So, I talked to one of my references and he indicated (in his words) that they were "high on me." And he was fairly certain that I would be getting an offer from them.

Well, it's been two and a half days. I'm used to getting an offer immediately, how long have people had to wait?
 
  • #43
FlexGunship said:
UPDATE:

So, I talked to one of my references and he indicated (in his words) that they were "high on me." And he was fairly certain that I would be getting an offer from them.

Well, it's been two and a half days. I'm used to getting an offer immediately, how long have people had to wait?
Always gotten the job during the first interview, followed up by a formal written offer letter.

It could be that they don't know what to offer you and that's the delay.
 
  • #44
Evo said:
Always gotten the job during the first interview, followed up by a formal written offer letter.

It could be that they don't know what to offer you and that's the delay.

Maybe. They did change the position for me so maybe they were less prepared.
 
  • #45
FlexGunship said:
Maybe. They did change the position for me so maybe they were less prepared.

sounds like you're getting the job. I wouldn't worry too much.
 
  • #46
dacruick said:
sounds like you're getting the job. I wouldn't worry too much.

Or maybe they interviewed someone after me!

Or maybe they decided they couldn't afford a new employee!

Or maybe the Kraken got them!
 
  • #47
FlexGunship said:
Or maybe they interviewed someone after me!

Or maybe they decided they couldn't afford a new employee!

Or maybe the Kraken got them!

You're right, I was being blindly comforting. You probably won't get the job. :-p
 
  • #48
dacruick said:
You're right, I was being blindly comforting. You probably won't get the job. :-p
:-p
 
  • #49
They decided not to make an offer citing, of course, the economy.
 
  • #50
FlexGunship said:
They decided not to make an offer citing, of course, the economy.

Get outta here. I'm sorry to hear the flex :frown:
 
  • #51
dacruick said:
Get outta here. I'm sorry to hear the flex :frown:

I'm really surprised, actually. The only consolation is that they're not hiring anyone. It's not like someone else got the job and I didn't. I just don't know why they went through so much effort creating a new job title, calling me back for a second interview, calling all of my references, explaining their new prototypes, letting me play with their software package, and disclosing all of their liquidity, debt, and related issues...

What a waste of everyone's time.
 
  • #52
FlexGunship said:
I'm really surprised, actually. The only consolation is that they're not hiring anyone. It's not like someone else got the job and I didn't. I just don't know why they went through so much effort creating a new job title, calling me back for a second interview, calling all of my references, explaining their new prototypes, letting me play with their software package, and disclosing all of their liquidity, debt, and related issues...

What a waste of everyone's time.

I feel like they wasted more than your time. There must have been a lot of mental energy invested into this, beyond what we've seen on this thread.
 
  • #53
dacruick said:
I feel like they wasted more than your time. There must have been a lot of mental energy invested into this, beyond what we've seen on this thread.

Not to mention I bought new clothes for the interview to better reflect what I understood the company image to be, I burned two vacation days (when I only get 10 a year), and I drove 2 hours each way twice.

I don't know... I was excited... thought it would be a great opportunity. I was really looking forward to trying something new, and I felt like I was a great match for what they were looking for.
 
  • #54
FlexGunship said:
I don't know... I was excited... thought it would be a great opportunity. I was really looking forward to trying something new, and I felt like I was a great match for what they were looking for.

Rightfully so. I figure that without that type of excitement, rarely will you be motivated enough to achieve success. I think you used your excitement as a tool to better your chances, and it's unfortunate that you weren't rewarded. If I were you I'd be bummed out, but I wouldn't regret a single thing.
 
  • #55
That sucks, Flex. Hang in there. You shouldn't have to accept a low-ball offer because of your age as long as you have relevant experience. Hope you can find a job that fits your skills.
 
  • #56
FlexGunship said:
I'm really surprised, actually. The only consolation is that they're not hiring anyone. It's not like someone else got the job and I didn't. I just don't know why they went through so much effort creating a new job title, calling me back for a second interview, calling all of my references, explaining their new prototypes, letting me play with their software package, and disclosing all of their liquidity, debt, and related issues...

What a waste of everyone's time.

Don't let it get you down. Might have been an internal hire, and they had to do the public posting and interviews to meet legal requirements, but when they stumbled across you, you gave them a run for their money, so they gave you a fair shake with a second interview before hiring the internal. Or, it could also be the requirement died during the hiring process.

I'm sorry to hear of the lost days of leave - that stinks. Perhaps next interview you can work out some flex time to interview during the week but make it up on the weekend.

I'd tell yourself "I've got the credentials and am in the running - it was close, so I'll just have to do better next time." Work with your local job placement center. We have a very good one here in Colorado Springs, and I'm working with them. Just got a call about a position today, in fact.

Keep at it!
 
  • #57
Wow. Very unexpected. Not that the outcome is REALLY any different from them hiring someone else instead, but it certainly makes everything SEEM like more of a waste.

It might be difficult not to have a sour taste left in your mouth, but you never know what could happen down the road. I was pretty put off by my former company and the poor HR decisions around my going back to school. I wasn't sure if I'd go back, but I committed to what I was doing, gave them a chance and just accepted an offer last week.

Maybe your hard work during these interviews and sacrifice of vacation will pay off down the road and they'll contact you later (not much of a consolation, I know).
 
  • #58
Grr, wish I could make them eat bugs.
 
  • #59
FlexGunship said:
Grr, wish I could make them eat bugs.
Flex,

I believe everything happens for a reason. I bet that the company you were applying at was large one, I work for one so I know how they operate. The HR Dept and Engineering Depts have multiple layers, and processes in place that are slow due to the sheer number of people and steps involved. Breakdowns in communication happen often. I have seen it time and again with offers to prospective employee's. I bet when the last quarter's numbers were tallied, that things didn't look quite as rosy as when you interviewed.

Things will work out for you. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders and are doing everything possible to land a position with commensurate pay worthy of your skills. Hang in there, and try to blow off some steam with a good speed bag session, bike ride, etc... you will feel better once you do.

Rhody... :wink:
 
  • #60
rhody said:
Flex,

I believe everything happens for a reason. I bet that the company you were applying at was large one, I work for one so I know how they operate. The HR Dept and Engineering Depts have multiple layers, and processes in place that are slow due to the sheer number of people and steps involved. Breakdowns in communication happen often. I have seen it time and again with offers to prospective employee's. I bet when the last quarter's numbers were tallied, that things didn't look quite as rosy as when you interviewed.

Things will work out for you. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders and are doing everything possible to land a position with commensurate pay worthy of your skills. Hang in there, and try to blow off some steam with a good speed bag session, bike ride, etc... you will feel better once you do.

Rhody... :wink:

Less than 25 employees actually. I found out what happened from the recruiter. They were set to make me an offer when they had one last candidate. He turned out to be big into business development. They decided that he was what they really needed. Made him an offer, and he refused. As a result though, they decided to look for more candidates like him.
 
  • #61
Sounds like maybe they have no idea what they need and are attracted to anything shiny. Maybe they lied to you out of their own interests (maybe out of fear that you'd get enraged), but I always see lame excuses like that simple cowardice that really bothers me. How hard is it to tell somebody the truth, especially someone that you'll probably never see again?

I don't want to sound like sour grapes, and my previous post was still enthusiastic, but I'm not a fan of operating that way. I'm always honest and up front and expect to be treated the same.
 
  • #62
FlexGunship said:
Made him an offer, and he refused.
Sounds like they lowballed him. So they would have lowballed you too, and it would have had nothing to do with your age.

BTW, I wouldn't trust a recruiter's explanation as far as I could throw it. They are not in he business of being candid when it comes to talking about their clients.
 
  • #63
Sounds like that company has a small budget and no idea of where they're going much less how to get there. IMO, you're better off not getting sucked into a company like that. With your skills, a "real" job will come along.
 
  • #64
DaveC426913 said:
Sounds like they lowballed him. So they would have lowballed you too, and it would have had nothing to do with your age.

BTW, I wouldn't trust a recruiter's explanation as far as I could throw it. They are not in he business of being candid when it comes to talking about their clients.
So true, on both counts. Recruiters are paid to whisper in your ear, and the real payoff comes when you sign up with their client. If you are a viable candidate for any job that they have pending, they will never give you bad news, since you are a potential payday for them, and they need to keep you on the hook.

If you are a great candidate for a well-paying job, recruiters will hunt you down. If you are a rising star in a new position, they will hound you, trying to lure you out of that position into another one. I gave up a position (well-paying, but dead-end) at one company to jump to a more responsible position at another company at twice the salary, only to find a year later that my new employer had already been "in play" and was sold to their most capable competitor. The experience was an eye-opener. It made free-lance consulting look like a walk in the park. It wasn't, but at least I was in control of my own destiny.
 
  • #65
S_Happens said:
Sounds like maybe they have no idea what they need and are attracted to anything shiny.

I think S_Happens nailed it. So often, HR depts of smaller firms are just casting in the wind.
 

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