Weak fields, higgs fields... forces

In summary, the weak field is not a force of nature because it does not obey some of the symmetries that are associated with the more fundamental forces.
  • #1
bluecap
396
13
Why is the weak field a force of nature.. while the higgs field is not a force of nature.. what is the signature or things to look for before a field can be considered as a force of nature?
 
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  • #2
What is referred to as "forces of nature" in popular litterature are gauge fields. These fields relate to fundamental symmetries of the theory. The Higgs field is not s gauge field. In fact, it breaks some of the mentioned symmetries, which is the reason the W and Z have mass. After symmetry breaking, three of four degrees of freedom in the Higgs field are eaten by the W and Z whfn they become massive. In some sense, the Higgs field therefore is part of the weak force.
 
  • #3
Orodruin said:
What is referred to as "forces of nature" in popular litterature are gauge fields. These fields relate to fundamental symmetries of the theory. The Higgs field is not s gauge field. In fact, it breaks some of the mentioned symmetries, which is the reason the W and Z have mass. After symmetry breaking, three of four degrees of freedom in the Higgs field are eaten by the W and Z whfn they become massive. In some sense, the Higgs field therefore is part of the weak force.

Are 100% of fields part of the quantum vacuum (or since the quantum vacuum is one which has the lowest (energetic) ground state.. should the question instead be "are 100% of fields part of the quantum field?)? But gravitational field doesn't appear to be part of the quantum vacuum (or quantum field?). Are there other fields not part of the quantum vacuum (fields?)?
 
  • #4
bluecap said:
Are 100% of fields part of the quantum vacuum
What do you mean by "part of the quantum vacuum"? All fields have a value everywhere in the vacuum, typically zero (that's the point of having a vacuum), the Higgs field is an exception.

We don't know how to quantize gravity properly yet, and the existing approaches would be beyond the scope of this thread I think.
 
  • #5
mfb said:
What do you mean by "part of the quantum vacuum"? All fields have a value everywhere in the vacuum, typically zero (that's the point of having a vacuum), the Higgs field is an exception.

We don't know how to quantize gravity properly yet, and the existing approaches would be beyond the scope of this thread I think.

Ok. Are all kinds of quantum fields related to the forces of nature? (Orodruin stated the higgs field is part of the weak force)
Are there any quantum fields that are not related to the forces of nature?
 
  • #6
bluecap said:
Are all kinds of quantum fields related to the forces of nature?
Most of them are related to what we typically call particles: electrons, muons, tau, quarks and neutrinos.
 
  • #7
mfb said:
What do you mean by "part of the quantum vacuum"? All fields have a value everywhere in the vacuum, typically zero (that's the point of having a vacuum), the Higgs field is an exception.

We don't know how to quantize gravity properly yet, and the existing approaches would be beyond the scope of this thread I think.

I know the Quantum Vacuum is the lowest energetic (ground) state of a quantum system
But is it right to say the Vacuum is the source of the quantum fields?
Isn't it the quantum fields is its own origin and there is no vacuum that produced it.
Then when many authors especially pop-sci authors state the vacuum produce the quantum fields.. then it is not exactly correct?
 
  • #8
bluecap said:
But is it right to say the Vacuum is the source of the quantum fields?
I don't think that is a useful approach.
bluecap said:
Isn't it the quantum fields is its own origin and there is no vacuum that produced it.
I don't think that is useful either.

The fields just exist. They are not "produced" by anything.
 
  • #9
mfb said:
I don't think that is a useful approach.I don't think that is useful either.

The fields just exist. They are not "produced" by anything.

Therefore what I mentioned is right that "quantum fields is its own origin and there is no vacuum that produced it". Why do you say the statement is not useful either?
 
  • #10
"is its own origin" looks like something would produce something.
 
  • #11
mfb said:
What do you mean by "part of the quantum vacuum"? All fields have a value everywhere in the vacuum, typically zero (that's the point of having a vacuum), the Higgs field is an exception.

We don't know how to quantize gravity properly yet, and the existing approaches would be beyond the scope of this thread I think.

In the above, why did you mention "All fields have a value everywhere in the vacuum".. isn't it "vacuum" has no place in quantum field theory.. there are only quantum fields and quantum vacuum is just the ground state of it.. there is really no "vacuum". What is the correct usage of the word "vacuum" in QFT (if it's valid at all).
 
  • #12
There is spacetime with fields in it. If all those fields are in the lowest energy state, we call this vacuum. You can call it "quantum vacuum" if you want to highlight that you work with quantum field theory, but it is the same vacuum as in classical mechanics, it is just described with different concepts.
 
  • #13
mfb said:
There is spacetime with fields in it. If all those fields are in the lowest energy state, we call this vacuum. You can call it "quantum vacuum" if you want to highlight that you work with quantum field theory, but it is the same vacuum as in classical mechanics, it is just described with different concepts.

But classical mechanics are just coarse graining of quantum reality. So how could there still be classical mechanics like the vacuum. In the universe, there are only quantum fields and general relativitistic geometry. Nothing else. So how could one still mention about classical mechanics in a QFT Universe?
 
  • #14
bluecap said:
Why is the weak field a force of nature.. while the higgs field is not a force of nature..

The commonly said phrase about "four fundamental interactions" (em, weak, strong, gravity)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_interaction

needs some clarification. For one, while Standard model does have strong force, there is no "fundamental EM interaction": electromagnetism is just a "fallout" of broken SU(2)*U(1). Thus, SM has three "forces", if we mean that by gauge fields: strong SU(3), weak isospin SU(2), and weak hypercharge U(1). Gravity is not explained by SM, but it clearly exists. So yes, four forces, but not ones commonly enumerated.

And then, there are in fact more interactions in SM. Higgs "gives mass to fermions". That's interaction. Not linked to a gauge field, but still, it is an interaction.

I would say each non-self-interacting term (i.e. a term with more than one field) in the Lagrangian is an interaction. Apart from three interaction terms for the above mentioned interactions of gauge fields with fermions, there are W*phi and B*phi terms for weak isospin and weak hypercharge fields interacting with Higgs field (since Higgs is not a fermion, these terms look different and I think this means it's a different interaction). And lastly, Yukawa interaction terms ("Higgs gives mass to fermions"), fermions*phi.

Thus, SM has six interactions. Plus gravity, it makes seven.
 
Last edited:

Related to Weak fields, higgs fields... forces

1. What is a weak field?

A weak field is a type of force field that is relatively weaker compared to other types of force fields, such as electromagnetic or gravitational fields. It is responsible for the weak nuclear force, one of the four fundamental forces of nature.

2. How does the weak field interact with matter?

The weak field interacts with matter through the exchange of particles called W and Z bosons. These particles are responsible for mediating the weak nuclear force between particles, such as protons and neutrons in an atom.

3. What is the Higgs field?

The Higgs field is a theoretical field that is thought to pervade all of space. It is responsible for giving particles their mass through a mechanism called the Higgs mechanism. This field is also linked to the Higgs boson, a particle that was discovered in 2012 at the Large Hadron Collider.

4. How does the Higgs field relate to the weak field?

The Higgs field is closely related to the weak field as it is responsible for giving particles their mass, which is a fundamental property that affects how they interact with the weak field. The Higgs field also interacts with the W and Z bosons, which are responsible for mediating the weak nuclear force.

5. What is the significance of understanding these fields and forces?

Understanding these fields and forces is crucial in our understanding of the fundamental laws of nature. They play a key role in explaining the behavior of matter at both the subatomic and cosmic scales. Additionally, this knowledge can also lead to advancements in technology and potential applications in fields such as energy production and medical treatments.

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