Weighing the Cost of Fixing Your 10 Year Old Car

[Cyrus]

At what point do you say spending x amount of money on fixing your car isn't worth it anymore?

My 10 year old accord needs the front axle fixed, $300. And my radio is busted, so I bought a new head unit w/all wires for around $90.00. I couldn't take not having a radio anymore .

I think the xmsn may have gone south AGAIN. Its 98' Accord LX. The paint has lots of scratches all around, but the interior is good. It just needs new buttons for the lights on the interior roof because the plastic broke.

BUT, the car is HUGE. I can fix big boxes in the back, and if I want to ride my bike I can fold down the back seat and fit my entire 61" frame bike in there!

If I could, I'd keep this car as long as possible. But I fear its getting to the point where fixing it might not be worth it soon. Its got around 150k miles.

Ahhh...I really don't want to have to buy a new car.

 

[Ouabache]

I find it is a personal choice when to decide it is no longer worth fixing. $300 doesn't sound so bad to me. I've paid that much to have a timing belt replaced. My own threshold for thinking more seriously about replacing an older car, is when repairs begin costing $1K or more. Everyone is different. I know people who trade in their car every 5 years, just because they like a prettier exterior or a newer engine. I am not one of those. I've already gone 10 years or more on two of my cars.

 

[Cyrus]

Well, its the xmsn that worries me. If its going to go bad, that's going to cost a good chunk of the worth of the car...

 

[rootX]

It should be simple: collect some statistics and optimize :)

But, I think 5-6 years is economical life of most cars.

 

[Ouabache]

A 2nd transmission overhaul is enough for me to seriously consider my options.

 

[Cyrus]

A 2nd transmission overhaul is enough for me to seriously consider my options.

Cough cough, they messed up the design and its actually like the 4th one... I didnt pay for parts, just for labor. But that was still a lot of money.

It would be nice to have a hybrid car that gets really high MPG, but those ant cheap, and a small car like a Civic won't work for carrying cargo. There just too small inside. Thats the problem, my car is big inside, but has an engine very close in size to a civic (4-cylinder). But is woefully underpowered.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

It would be nice to have a hybrid car that gets really high MPG,

I've heard that the batteries in them need to be changed every so many years and that they cost a couple grand to replace.


As far as the OP it all depends on costs. My car's tranny went out and my mechanic told me that since evrything else on the car seemed to be in order it would likely be better to fix it since another used car would cost about the same and who knows what sort of issues the new one might have. This turned out to be a bad idea. I spent over three grand to replace the tranny. Then with in a month the head gasket blew costing about fifteen hundred. Brakes went out at the same time which cost another five hundred. Along with a few other odds and ends I wound up spending about six grand on the thing in a matter of a few months. Once I had put over three thousand into it for the tranny it would have been throwing away money to not fix the next problem and then even worse not to fix the next. It became a money pit. Fortunately it's working ok right now but I really wish I had ditched it for a newer car. If your car is getting old and the model is known for havng issues it's best to get rid of it. Three hundred in repairs though is nothing.

 

[wolram]

Scrap it and buy a small car and trailer, you can leave the trailer off until you need it, all you have to do is practice reversing with the trailer on.

 

[Cyrus]

The guy replaced the whole front axle in a few hours, damn that was fast! And he said the car needed oil badly. (So I drove it 900 miles over, big deal...they can go over 3k miles before every oil change anyways. Its not like smoke was coming out the back, and the engine temp wasnt high).

I think in the next year or two it might need to be replaced though. That subaru outback seems to be a big car with lots of room inside, and costs under 20k for a model that's 1-2 years old with a 4 cyl engine. I need a car that's cheap to repair if I ever replace this one. I am not going the route my friend did and buy a used mercedes that needs preimum only, twice a week, and has stupid crap break down because its full of gadgets, like sensors that run a few hundred...no. That car costs way too much to maintain.

Toyota camry seems pretty good too.


The guy at the gas station got the part from the honda dealership, and replaced it for me in half an hour, and changed the oil. All costing $300.00. Just to change the axle the dealership wanted $700.00 w/3 hours labor costs...

 

[chemisttree]

You should learn to fix the car yourself. If you had consulted the Chilton manual, you would have seen that the half axle replacement requires few tools and only basic skill... that's why the mechanic replaced it so quickly. I do it in about 1 hour total. The price at Auto Zone for the part (lifetime guarantee) is roughly half of what you paid and Auto Zone has a free tool loan policy. You might need to invest in some stands though. I've replaced two of them on the various Civics I've owned and they are pretty simple to do. Of course if you can do the half axle, you can do the front brakes as well and as long as you are underneath the car, you can change the oil/filter. You can save a lot of money doing basic things yourself... and buy a nice Alpine stereo with the savings!

Regarding Statutory's comment about Hybrid batteries needing replacing every couple of years, it ain't so. Toyota hasn't yet replaced any batteries on the Prius on any of it's cars due to them wearing out. The Prius has been on the market now for over 7 years.

 

[mgb_phys]

That subaru outback seems to be a big car with lots of room inside, and costs under 20k for a model that's 1-2 years old with a 4 cyl engine. I need a car that's cheap to repair if I ever replace this one.

I bought the subaru impressa a year ago (same as outback but lower ground clearance and less rugged look)
Four wheel drive is great when it snows, and general handling is amazing - you constantly wonder why everyone else is braking in corners.
4wd is on all the time which hurts the gas mileage, I get about 35mpg on a commute for a 2.5L 4cylinder manual transmssion. It looks like it might eat tyres though.

Dealer service is surprisingly cheap, although I got a deal on the 3year waranty and 3years servicing costs. Don't know easy the engine is to work on yourself, it's an odd flat 4 boxer, very low down in the engine bay.
It has all the engine management computer stuff of any Japanese car but very few gadgets/toys.
I bought it as a 10year 'keeper' - it's my first non <$1000 car!

 

[Borek]

I get about 35mpg on a commute for a 2.5L

Really that low consumption? I mean - that much mpg (I am thinking in L/100 km)?

 

[mgb_phys]

Spec is 10L/100km town and 8L/100km highway.
I get about 8L/100km commuting, but that's using manual transmission to coast a lot, that works out to less than 30mpg (us gallon).
I don't know how much is the engine vs the 4wd, but it is worse than the 2wheel drive Jeep, although better than the smallest VW golf they sell here.

I would like citreon/peugot to import the 60-70mpg little diesel hatchbacks I used to have in europe!

 

[loseyourname]

I had to fix an axle on a Civic about six years ago and just bought it from Auto Zone and had my dad's friend install it. It took him about twenty minutes and only cost me the part, which was negligible. I probably should learn to do that myself.

I also have a ten year old Accord right now and am strongly considering getting a new car, but this one does run perfectly fine. The problem is that the power windows no longer work, so I can't roll either window down, and the right door handle came out of the door, so a passenger can't get out without me needing to walk over and let them out. The center console is split at the joint, too. The interior is just falling apart, but I feel like I should keep driving it as long as it runs well, which it does.

 

[Cyrus]

I had to fix an axle on a Civic about six years ago and just bought it from Auto Zone and had my dad's friend install it. It took him about twenty minutes and only cost me the part, which was negligible. I probably should learn to do that myself.

I also have a ten year old Accord right now and am strongly considering getting a new car, but this one does run perfectly fine. The problem is that the power windows no longer work, so I can't roll either window down, and the right door handle came out of the door, so a passenger can't get out without me needing to walk over and let them out. The center console is split at the joint, too. The interior is just falling apart, but I feel like I should keep driving it as long as it runs well, which it does.

Thats odd, because my interior is actually in great shape, (except for the buttons for the top lights which broke). When I clean the inside of the car, it looks brand new. The outside, well...thats scratched to all hell. If you look at it from about 10 feet, its nice and new looking. If you walk up close, you'll see the scratches.

Do you have the LX, and what year is it? I am wondering if you also have the transmission problems and underpowered engine.

 

[Moonbear]

For me, it's when repairs that expensive start happening every few months. If it's not much difference between a new car payment and the repair bill, it's time to get the new car. The severity of the problems and availability of replacement parts becomes an issue too. When it gets to the point you're waiting a few days for them to order parts every time something breaks, or worse, can only get them by heading down to the junkyard and searching there, it's definitely time to replace the car, even if the repairs aren't that expensive yet.

 

[turbo]

I keep up with maintenance, catch problems as early as possible (this involves driving under a variety of circumstances WITHOUT the radio blaring, so you can hear when mechanical stuff starts sounding different), and drive the vehicles into the ground. I have a wonderful independent mechanic who has been doing this stuff for almost 50 years, and can fix stuff properly in a fraction of the time that the dealerships do. Even when he needs more time (lacking a specialty tool, for instance) the cost of the repair is always way less than it would have been at the dealership.

 

[Cyrus]

I keep up with maintenance, catch problems as early as possible (this involves driving under a variety of circumstances WITHOUT the radio blaring, so you can hear when mechanical stuff starts sounding different), and drive the vehicles into the ground. I have a wonderful independent mechanic who has been doing this stuff for almost 50 years, and can fix stuff properly in a fraction of the time that the dealerships do. Even when he needs more time (lacking a specialty tool, for instance) the cost of the repair is always way less than it would have been at the dealership.

The axle went bad and would make a noise 'tak-tak-tak-tak-tak-tak' like a machine gun when you would turn the wheel and press on the gas pedal. People walking on the sidewalk would stare at me like...WTF...are you serious...wow.

 

[turbo]

The axle went bad and would make a noise 'tak-tak-tak-tak-tak-tak' like a machine gun when you would turn the wheel and press on the gas pedal. People walking on the sidewalk would stare at me like...WTF...are you serious...wow.

OK, that's an example of a mechanical problem that was allowed to go from problematic to serious. Sounds like you lucked out, but mechanical problems that are allowed to worsen often cause damage to related parts, and that can cost a LOT more money than it would have cost if you had addressed the problem as soon as it started.

As an example, when you start up your vehicle, and the hydraulic lifters are not fully pumped up, you'll hear the valve-train clacking away. In warm weather, this gets quiet quickly. In cold weather, this will go away in a while as the oil warms and thins. If it does not go away, or the valve-train of one cylinder stays noisy, get help from a decent mechanic. You might save yourself a LOT of money down the road. It might be as simple as a plugged oil-galley to that particular lifter and might be resolved with a solvent flush.

 

[Cyrus]

OK, that's an example of a mechanical problem that was allowed to go from problematic to serious. Sounds like you lucked out, but mechanical problems that are allowed to worsen often cause damage to related parts, and that can cost a LOT more money than it would have cost if you had addressed the problem as soon as it started.

As an example, when you start up your vehicle, and the hydraulic lifters are not fully pumped up, you'll hear the valve-train clacking away. In warm weather, this gets quiet quickly. In cold weather, this will go away in a while as the oil warms and thins. If it does not go away, or the valve-train of one cylinder stays noisy, get help from a decent mechanic. You might save yourself a LOT of money down the road. It might be as simple as a plugged oil-galley to that particular lifter and might be resolved with a solvent flush.

Well, it was the (I think) bearing in the axle. Its been doing it for about a month. It wasnt so bad at first, but it got to be quite loud so I finally go it fixed. The guy at the dealership said it was ok to drive it like that for a while.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I keep up with maintenance, catch problems as early as possible (this involves driving under a variety of circumstances WITHOUT the radio blaring, so you can hear when mechanical stuff starts sounding different), and drive the vehicles into the ground. I have a wonderful independent mechanic who has been doing this stuff for almost 50 years, and can fix stuff properly in a fraction of the time that the dealerships do. Even when he needs more time (lacking a specialty tool, for instance) the cost of the repair is always way less than it would have been at the dealership.

I've had to start going to a pepboys. I used to go to independant mechanics but there were always problems. My first mechanic would go on vacation all the time so if I left him my car it could be there for up to a week before it got fixed, even for something simple. My second mechanic seemed to always have trouble figuring out anything that was wrong with my car. The last time I took my car in I explained what was wrong and left it with him for about two days before he had me pick it up telling me that he drove it and there was nothing wrong with it that he could tell. As I left his shop it was doing the same thing again and worse. The next day I took it to pepboys and they had it fixed by the end of the day.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Regarding Statutory's comment about Hybrid batteries needing replacing every couple of years, it ain't so. Toyota hasn't yet replaced any batteries on the Prius on any of it's cars due to them wearing out. The Prius has been on the market now for over 7 years.

Sorry. My step father was looking into getting a hybrid and told me he had found this to be an issue with them. I just looked around at some articles that agree with you and now I'm wondering where he came up with this.

 

[turbo]

I've had to start going to a pepboys. I used to go to independant mechanics but there were always problems. My first mechanic would go on vacation all the time so if I left him my car it could be there for up to a week before it got fixed, even for something simple. My second mechanic seemed to always have trouble figuring out anything that was wrong with my car. The last time I took my car in I explained what was wrong and left it with him for about two days before he had me pick it up telling me that he drove it and there was nothing wrong with it that he could tell. As I left his shop it was doing the same thing again and worse. The next day I took it to pepboys and they had it fixed by the end of the day.

You didn't pick a good mechanic. My grandfather was a heavy-equipment mechanic and he was killer, working on skidders, tractors, bulldozers, cranes, etc, as needed. He was a generalist and he was a great troubleshooter. It's tougher to be that kind of mechanic in this time (where car-makers can withhold critical details regarding troubleshooting, known problems, etc) and you have to pick a guy who can roll with this.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

You didn't pick a good mechanic. My grandfather was a heavy-equipment mechanic and he was killer, working on skidders, tractors, bulldozers, cranes, etc, as needed. He was a generalist and he was a great troubleshooter. It's tougher to be that kind of mechanic in this time (where car-makers can withhold critical details regarding troubleshooting, known problems, etc) and you have to pick a guy who can roll with this.

The problem was that I was told he was a good reliable mechanic. And he was definitely a nice guy. He never charged me to look at it and play with it if he didn't find what was wrong with it. Both of the mechanics came highly recommended but I guess the people recommending them didn't have any issues with not having their car for days on end.
Fortunately I have a friend that works at pepboys so I don't have to worry about whether or not I can trust them which is what kept from going to pepboys before. He also does his best to help me out on price and such. Now that I am moving though his shop will be much further away.

 

[Janus]

Well, it was the (I think) bearing in the axle. Its been doing it for about a month. It wasnt so bad at first, but it got to be quite loud so I finally go it fixed. The guy at the dealership said it was ok to drive it like that for a while.

Sounds like the CV joint was worn out.

http://www.automotive-technology.co.uk/downloadable%20files/CV%20joint.jpg

This is the coupling that ties the drive axles to the wheels of front-wheel drive vehicles and allows for even transfer of power from transmission to wheel while you are turning corners.

They are a better version of the universal joint used on the drive shaft for rear-wheel drive vehicles.

They can wear out on their own, or sometimes the rubber boot that protects them can split letting dirt in.

 

[B. Elliott]

Well, it was the (I think) bearing in the axle. Its been doing it for about a month. It wasnt so bad at first, but it got to be quite loud so I finally go it fixed. The guy at the dealership said it was ok to drive it like that for a while.

Cyrus, do you have any tools such as a breaker bar, metric wrenches sockets 10mm-19mm, and (this is a long shot) a 32mm socket?

If you'd want to attempt to change it yourself to save over $150, I could guide you through it. I worked on specifically Hondas for over 10 years and also did quite a few engine swaps and other performance oriented mods.

Here's a car that I built for myself, but had to sell because I couldn't refuse the offer that was made. I shoehorned a 2.2liter engine out of a Prelude into it. Much greater torque than the stock 1.5 liter engine.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/hypohonda/f9cd2fa2.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/hypohonda/f9cd2fc2.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/hypohonda/f9cd2fb5.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/hypohonda/EngTiming-1.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/hypohonda/H22engcmptpass2.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/hypohonda/H22engfront4.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/hypohonda/manifold1.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/hypohonda/RearSwaybar.jpg

Just offering if you'd like to attempt it. If I was actually there and walked you through it, you'd kick yourself in the arse after realizing how easy it really is.

 

[Cyrus]

Cyrus, do you have any tools such as a breaker bar, metric wrenches sockets 10mm-19mm, and (this is a long shot) a 32mm socket?

If you'd want to attempt to change it yourself to save over $150, I could guide you through it. I worked on specifically Hondas for over 10 years and also did quite a few engine swaps and other performance oriented mods.

Here's a car that I built for myself, but had to sell because I couldn't refuse the offer that was made. I shoehorned a 2.2liter engine out of a Prelude into it. Much greater torque than the stock 1.5 liter engine.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/hypohonda/f9cd2fa2.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/hypohonda/f9cd2fc2.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/hypohonda/f9cd2fb5.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/hypohonda/EngTiming-1.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/hypohonda/H22engcmptpass2.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/hypohonda/H22engfront4.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/hypohonda/manifold1.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/hypohonda/RearSwaybar.jpg

Just offering if you'd like to attempt it. If I was actually there and walked you through it, you'd kick yourself in the arse after realizing how easy it really is.

Well, its already done, but next time!

In your opinion, whens the best time to take your car to the dealer for repair, other than major engine/tranny problems?

 

[edward]

The clicking sound in a turn is always a constant velocity joint. If just one side was repaired the other side will probably be next.

Find a good independent mechanic. Dealerships are a rip off if your vehicle has high mileage.

 

[B. Elliott]

Well, its already done, but next time!

In your opinion, whens the best time to take your car to the dealer for repair, other than major engine/tranny problems?

My philosophy... when you're truly stuck and have absolutely no other option. I've never trusted dealerships at all after having a few friends work at them. I don't know if bad work ethic would be the proper wording, but let's just say I've heard of quite a few people being drained out of quite a bit of money for no reason other than someone trying to make a buck.

With the implementation of OBD1 back in 91-92, engine diagnostics became a TON easier. Even more so with OBD2 around 96-97. Pretty much if your check engine light comes on for any reason, take it to a local autoparts store and have them plug in a basic code reader to the diagnostic port. All it does is pull the code form the onboard computer which is detecting the faulty sensor. You can actually buy the simple scanners pretty cheap now at around $20-30. Once you get the code for what's faulty, get online and start searching for what the code means. Every OBD1 and OBD2 (every vehicle sold in the US) vehicle uses standardized coding for the specific sensors... Hondas to Fords, Chevrolets to Nissans. Anyway, once you get the information online, chances are there's an online resource that shows you exactly how to fix what the problem is. If nothing specific is found, to be honest, with 90% of the vehicles on the road today everything is standardized. Things may be moved around a bit, but all the same parts are still there. Same components.

Best bet would be to pick up a Chiltons manual for the vehicle. For the cost they're the best manual out there. Don't mess with a Haynes manual because the walkthroughs aren't detailed enough and information is too vague. And the Haynes sometimes flat out completely omit vital information (vital IMO). The next best option, though expensive, would be to go ahead and order the actual manufacturers repair manual for the vehicle. The only place that sells them (and makes them for the manufacturers themselves) is HelmInc.com. They run about $60-65 a pop and sometimes comes with an additional manual which concentrates specifically on the engine and in-cabin wiring and nothing else. The Helms manuals are a godsend. If a 17 year old rookie mechanic can follow them (what the dealerships use) and get paid completing repairs, I know you can. They're as detailed as you can get visually and verbally, and actually take the time to dip into theory to fully explain how the parts operate and how they function with other parts.

 

[lisab]

My philosophy... when you're truly stuck and have absolutely no other option. I've never trusted dealerships at all after having a few friends work at them. I don't know if bad work ethic would be the proper wording, but let's just say I've heard of quite a few people being drained out of quite a bit of money for no reason other than someone trying to make a buck.

With the implementation of OBD1 back in 91-92, engine diagnostics became a TON easier. Even more so with OBD2 around 96-97. Pretty much if your check engine light comes on for any reason, take it to a local autoparts store and have them plug in a basic code reader to the diagnostic port. All it does is pull the code form the onboard computer which is detecting the faulty sensor. You can actually buy the simple scanners pretty cheap now at around $20-30. Once you get the code for what's faulty, get online and start searching for what the code means. Every OBD1 and OBD2 (every vehicle sold in the US) vehicle uses standardized coding for the specific sensors... Hondas to Fords, Chevrolets to Nissans. Anyway, once you get the information online, chances are there's an online resource that shows you exactly how to fix what the problem is. If nothing specific is found, to be honest, with 90% of the vehicles on the road today everything is standardized. Things may be moved around a bit, but all the same parts are still there. Same components.

Best bet would be to pick up a Chiltons manual for the vehicle. For the cost they're the best manual out there. Don't mess with a Haynes manual because the walkthroughs aren't detailed enough and information is too vague. And the Haynes sometimes flat out completely omit vital information (vital IMO). The next best option, though expensive, would be to go ahead and order the actual manufacturers repair manual for the vehicle. The only place that sells them (and makes them for the manufacturers themselves) is HelmInc.com. They run about $60-65 a pop and sometimes comes with an additional manual which concentrates specifically on the engine and in-cabin wiring and nothing else. The Helms manuals are a godsend. If a 17 year old rookie mechanic can follow them (what the dealerships use) and get paid completing repairs, I know you can. They're as detailed as you can get visually and verbally, and actually take the time to dip into theory to fully explain how the parts operate and how they function with other parts.

Aha! Thanks for the tip ...my hubby's got a 1988 Civic SI that he wants to fix up. He used to work on cars when he was younger, so he knows enough to do it, but I'm going to get him the manufacturer's manual to help him along the way...what a great gift idea!

 

[B. Elliott]

You're welcome lisab. I'm telling you, he'll love it. With my project car I had to completely strip down the factory Prelude and Civic engine harnesses and make a custom one by combining both. The Prelude and Civic manuals had every wire labeled along with the color coding, so all I had to do was draw up a cross reference chart to know how which wires go where. Pretty much plug and play! Getting the wires the right length for each sensor was a PITA though.

 

[chemisttree]

Sorry. My step father was looking into getting a hybrid and told me he had found this to be an issue with them. I just looked around at some articles that agree with you and now I'm wondering where he came up with this.

I did the same analysis as your father before I bought my Mariner Hybrid last year. I too was surprised at the lack of problems with the Toyota battery packs. Once I found out that they were a 'lifetime' battery pack, it made my decision much easier. Still getting between 33 and 34 mpg combined city/highway!

 

[chemisttree]

They can wear out on their own, or sometimes the rubber boot that protects them can split letting dirt in.

Thats the usual etiology of the problem. The boot splits along the seam of maximum flexure, flings out the lube (a great diagnostic, BTW) and the joint is operated exposed to the elements without lubrication. Unless you catch the boot failure early, joint replacement is the best solution. Replacing the half axle (both the CV and Plunge joint) is actually easier than trying to replace the boot itself and the lube.