What are my chances of being admitted into good graduate schools?

[Luca Moraglio]

I've just finished my third year at a spanish university, majoring in Physics, next year being my last one (4 years major). The issue I have is that I have a pretty low average score, of 6.3/10. I failed 3/10 classes in my first year, and instead of taking less classes and finishing in 5 years, I took 13 classes on my second year in order to try and finish my major in 4 years, passing 11 of those and passing all 12 remaining in my third year.

I am now heading into my fourth year with no classes pending from previous years, but with that lowish score of 6.3/10. Even though I'll hopefully finish my major in 4 years, I'm worried I won't be accepted into any decent graduate schools. I'm really interested in doing some Space Science or Astrophysics masters program, and next week I'm starting a 1 month internship at Indra, a big company in the defense and aerospace sectors in Spain.

Also, in the university I'm currently studying at, only ~45% of students finish the Physics major in less than 5 years (let alone in 4 years) but I don't know if admission committees will take this into consideration.

What are my chances of being admitted into a good graduate school if I manage to end my major with an average score of around 6.6/10 (~3.0 GPA)? Is there also any university you'd recommend to me given my background?

Thank you very much, I greatly appreciate any help.

 

[Choppy]

Well I can't speak to the European system specifically, but I suspect you already know you're facing an uphill battle. There are some schools that specifically weight your GPA more heavily toward the upper level classes. So it might be worth seeking out which schools do that when it comes time to apply.

Also, in the university I'm currently studying at, only ~45% of students finish the Physics major in less than 5 years (let alone in 4 years) but I don't know if admission committees will take this into consideration.

Obviously I can't speak for all admission committees, but generally this isn't factored in. And if they do pay attention to it in your case, it might not work to your benefit. It paints a picture (whether true or not) consistent with someone who accomplishes the bare minimum in as little time as possible.

At this point the best plan moving forward is to do as well as you can in your coming coursework. Learn as much as you can at your internship, make some connections if possible, try to leave them with a good impression of you. Get involved in research if you haven't already, and try to cone down your interests into a specific set of projects. Lean as much as you can about the groups doing that kind of work, what skills sets you'll need for it, and focus on developing those skills.

 

[Luca Moraglio]

Well I can't speak to the European system specifically, but I suspect you already know you're facing an uphill battle. There are some schools that specifically weight your GPA more heavily toward the upper level classes. So it might be worth seeking out which schools do that when it comes time to apply.


Obviously I can't speak for all admission committees, but generally this isn't factored in. And if they do pay attention to it in your case, it might not work to your benefit. It paints a picture (whether true or not) consistent with someone who accomplishes the bare minimum in as little time as possible.

At this point the best plan moving forward is to do as well as you can in your coming coursework. Learn as much as you can at your internship, make some connections if possible, try to leave them with a good impression of you. Get involved in research if you haven't already, and try to cone down your interests into a specific set of projects. Lean as much as you can about the groups doing that kind of work, what skills sets you'll need for it, and focus on developing those skills.

Hello, firstly thank you a lot for your response, I really appreciate you took the time to answer.

The primary reason I wanted to finish in 4 years is that I'm currently studying in a different province, so staying one more year would have supposed an additional cost to my family.

Regarding research, I will definitely try to look into research this year but I wanted to ask if research, the internship and strong recommendation letters would be enough to apply to universities such as France's Sorbonne, Paris-Saclay, the German LMU or if I should lower my expectations and apply for "lower-ranking" universities.

Again, thank you very much for your input.

 

[Vanadium 50]

There seems to be a mismatch between your expectations and your past performance.

or if I should lower my expectations and apply for "lower-ranking" universities.

You have failed five classes. Do you think Saclay or LMU is saying to themselves "we need to accept more students who have failed lots of classes"?

strong recommendation letters

And where do you think these will come from? Who will wrote a strong letter? A letter that says "He got a C in my class - but that was a lot better than Prof. Jones' class, which he failed" is not helpful.

I think you need to schedule a meeting with your advisor ASAP and figure out where, if anywhere, graduate school might be an option. If it isn't, it might influence how you move forward in your final year.

To set the scale, last I checked there are 162 schools in the US that offer a PhD in physics. I know you are not interested in the US, but that's what I know. I am familiar with the #162 program. You would not be accepted into that program with a 3.0 and five failing grades. I know this is bad news, but it is what it is.

 

[Luca Moraglio]

There seems to be a mismatch between your expectations and your past performance.

You have failed five classes. Do you think Saclay or LMU is saying to themselves "we need to accept more students who have failed lots of classes"?

And where do you think these will come from? Who will wrote a strong letter? A letter that says "He got a C in my class - but that was a lot better than Prof. Jones' class, which he failed" is not helpful.

I think you need to schedule a meeting with your advisor ASAP and figure out where, if anywhere, graduate school might be an option. If it isn't, it might influence how you move forward in your final year.

To set the scale, last I checked there are 162 schools in the US that offer a PhD in physics. I know you are not interested in the US, but that's what I know. I am familiar with the #162 program. You would not be accepted into that program with a 3.0 and five failing grades. I know this is bad news, but it is what it is.

Hello, thank you a lot for your response, I highly apppreciate it.

Is a failed class considered failed even if I retook it and passed it? In Spain, any non-optional classes (the ones I failed in my first and second year) have to be re-taken in order to graduate and finish majoring. Every class I failed I have re-taken and passed, that's why I chose to study for 13 classes in my second year and 12 in my third year, instead of studying them in a 5th year.

Regarding the recommendation letters, I have 3 professors who have agreed to write recommendation letters (I don't know if I need more), I am sorry I didn't mention it earlier.

Are the chances of getting accepted into graduate school low even if I managed to pass all classes in the end, and have improved my GPA this year (7/10 in my third year), with sights to improve it even further next year (as I will have only 10 classes, instead of the 13 and 12 I've had for the past 2 years)?

I should also mention that I am looking into a masters programme, not a PhD, I again apologize for not specifying more clearly before.

Again, thank you. I truly appreciate all the advice and input.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I am afraid you are not going to easily get away from your record. "I took the classes again and eventually passed them" is not going to make a huge difference, as you have failed five. You need to face facts - the top schools are not looking for people with 3.0 GPAs who failed zero classes, much less five.

Maybe you will get letters, but what will they say? "Best student this year" is an average letter. "He passed my class...eventually" is not your ticket into the top universities.

You need to talk to your advisor and find out what your options are.

 

[berkeman]

Is a failed class considered failed even if I retook it and passed it? In Spain, any non-optional classes (the ones I failed in my first and second year) have to be re-taken in order to graduate and finish majoring. Every class I failed I have re-taken and passed, that's why I chose to study for 13 classes in my second year and 12 in my third year, instead of studying them in a 5th year.

How does that show up on your transcripts? Do they show the failed classes and then the retaken passed classes later? Or are the failed classes wiped when you retake and pass?

 

[Luca Moraglio]

I am afraid you are not going to easily get away from your record. "I took the classes again and eventually passed them" is not going to make a huge difference, as you have failed five. You need to face facts - the top schools are not looking for people with 3.0 GPAs who failed zero classes, much less five.

Maybe you will get letters, but what will they say? "Best student this year" is an average letter. "He passed my class...eventually" is not your ticket into the top universities.

You need to talk to your advisor and find out what your options are.

I will talk to my advisor then and consider my options. Thank you very much for your input, I really appreciate an honest opinion.

 

[Luca Moraglio]

How does that show up on your transcripts? Do they show the failed classes and then the retaken passed classes later? Or are the failed classes wiped when you retake and pass?

The failed classes' score is wiped and is not shown, it just shows the year in which I've passed the class. So for example I failed "Análisis I" (which is something like Calculus in the US) in 2021/2022 (my first year), but as I have passed it last year, it just shows my grade in that class, a "2022/2023", indicating the year I passed and also the number of exams I had to take in order to pass the class is included.

 

[gmax137]

I will talk to my advisor then and consider my options.

Good!

 

[phinds]

The failed classes' score is wiped and is not shown, it just shows the year in which I've passed the class. So for example I failed "Análisis I" (which is something like Calculus in the US) in 2021/2022 (my first year), but as I have passed it last year, it just shows my grade in that class, a "2022/2023", indicating the year I passed and also the number of exams I had to take in order to pass the class is included.

But you still have ~3.0 GPS. That's not grad school material, sad to say.

 

[gwnorth]

I'm really interested in doing some Space Science or Astrophysics masters program

Issues with your GPA and lack of research experience aside, what's your goal with doing a master's in Astrophysics? What are you hoping to do with the degree?