What Are Some Pros and Cons of George Bush's Presidency for Republicans?

[member 5645]

Hello Republicans...

Things I like about George Bush:

Tax cuts.
Late term abortion bill
Holding Iraq accountable
Removing the Taliban
Support for a two state plan inthe middle east
Bringing intelligence agencies under one roof
Focus on unjust Affirmative Action Programs
Push for Free Trade
NASA reorganization of funds + goal of space shuttle retirement
Increased military
Focus on Medical Liability Reform
Illegal alien worker visa program (after reading the proposal in it's entirety, I've changed my mind)
Push for standardized tests for high school graduation
Refusal to sign the Kyoto


Things I don't like about Bush:

Nonconservative spending
Lack of diplomacy (including Letting Tony Blair hang out to dry)
US department of education taking more federal role of school funding
Post war handling of Iraq (in general)
Leaving the ABM treaty
No push for a revised and proper Kyoto
Cheney as vice president


This is the list off the top of my head. Let's continue it together...

 

[cragwolf]

I will highlight some of your likes and dislikes:

Things I like about George Bush:

Tax cuts.
Holding Iraq accountable
Removing the Taliban
Support for a two state plan inthe middle east
Bringing intelligence agencies under one roof
NASA reorganization of funds + goal of space shuttle retirement
Increased military

Things I don't like about Bush:

Nonconservative spending

How can you have tax cuts when you support increasing the military, large military actions in other countries, reorganisation of intelligence agencies (bureaucratic reshuffles always cost money), and the costly NASA plan? Where do you expect to get the money to pay for these programs? How can you not support increased spending when you support all of these costly policies?

Bush is nuts and his supporters aren't using their brains.

 

[member 5645]

I will highlight some of your likes and dislikes:



How can you have tax cuts when you support increasing the military, large military actions in other countries, reorganisation of intelligence agencies (bureaucratic reshuffles always cost money), and the costly NASA plan? Where do you expect to get the money to pay for these programs? How can you not support increased spending when you support all of these costly policies?

Bush is nuts and his supporters aren't using their brains.

Simple. Reorgranize the spending. Medicare and Social Security need a reform for starters.

Much of NASA's costs are coming from nothing more than redistribution of present NASA funds. To my knowledge, we are presently waiting for more details on this before the plan is to go into effect. We'll talk about this more then. I'm not in favor of money being spent just to be spent.

Where did I say I was not in favor of increased spending? I said that I was unhappy with Bush's nonconservative spending.If somethign has to be done, then it has to be done. If something has to be paid for it, then so be it. Wasteful programs and wasteful overhead (not happy with the medicare bill that passed), I am not okay with. Paying contractors up to 1000/day in Iraq is crazy to me. I support going to Iraq, I am hardly happy about the price tag on it, when that tag could easily be much lower.

Why don't you try to keep the attacks to a zero?? There's no need for you to come in here and start calling names.

 

[schwarzchildradius]

Tax cuts.

Math is not your thing and that's O.k.

Late term abortion bill

Derivative of a woman's right to choose reproducive freedom is a woman's right to choose to give birth to a child. Only degenerate civilizations sterilize or otherwise interfere with women's reproductive rights.

Removing the Taliban

The terrorists who the Taliban harbor, al Qaeda are alive and well in Iraq according to the US military

Support for a two state plan inthe middle east

maybe, so long as Israel decides which states & assassinates with UN approval whoever they dislike.

Bringing intelligence agencies under one roof

THE FBI & CIA are separate for a very good reason, and there is a man with the job of putting together intelligence from both organizations- the president.

Focus on unjust Affirmative Action Programs

not even "pioneers" or "rangers" give a damn about affirmative action anymore (Harper's 3/04)

Push for Free Trade

What about the Steel Tariff flip flop? and the falling dollar & exported jobs? and rising fuel prices? Free trade only makes sense if there are labor standards and a strong economy, otherwise we're giving away our treasure.

NASA reorganization of funds + goal of space shuttle retirement

what about the Hubble space telescope which provided the data for the 1998 discovery that the universe is expanding exponentially and subsequent finding of "dark energy" which is accelerating the expansion of space? That's a momentus discovery that's being abandoned for a political agenda.

Increased military

Speaks for itself. Let's throw our centuries old Republic away because some insane neo-nazis want to "increase military."

Focus on Medical Liability Reform

Focus on kids with no health insurance dying.

Illegal alien worker visa program (after reading the proposal in it's entirety, I've changed my mind)

That's what they used to help get the 9/11 Saudi terrorists into the US with no photo & no questions asked. GWB helped Saudi immigrants immigrate before 2001 with a streamlined visa program exclusively for middle eastern nations.

Push for standardized tests for high school graduation

That's fine rhetoric but it's designed to privatize public education and use tax payer money for religious indoctrination.

Refusal to sign the Kyoto

You like it but it shows that Bush rejects science and rejects scientific analysis.

Things I don't like about Bush:

Nonconservative spending
Lack of diplomacy (including Letting Tony Blair hang out to dry)
US department of education taking more federal role of school funding
Post war handling of Iraq (in general)
Leaving the ABM treaty
No push for a revised and proper Kyoto
Cheney as vice president

You don't know what the meaning of any of those terms is, do you?

 

[member 5645]

schwarzchildradius are you incapable of doing anything but trolling? Ad hominem attack after another. Straw man argument after another.
Luckily your politics match that of the moderator, or maybe there would be a more likely chance you'd get regulated...like you should be.

I guess I might as well just delete this thread now, since you are intent on derailing it. It's as if some of you guys are actually HURT by someone expressing what they like about George Bush

Maybe you guys really are just negative...
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=22121

 

[LURCH]

Things I like about George Bush:

Tax cuts.
Late term abortion bill
Holding Iraq accountable
Removing the Taliban
Support for a two state plan inthe middle east
Bringing intelligence agencies under one roof
Focus on unjust Affirmative Action Programs
Push for Free Trade
NASA reorganization of funds + goal of space shuttle retirement
Increased military
Focus on Medical Liability Reform
Illegal alien worker visa program (after reading the proposal in it's entirety, I've changed my mind)
Push for standardized tests for high school graduation
Refusal to sign the Kyoto

I would add the fetal protection law and the Freedom Car Initiative (along with some intangibles). I would have disagreed with you about Kyoto, if you had not included the need for a revised Kyoto protocol in the next section.

Things I don't like about Bush:

Nonconservative spending
Lack of diplomacy (including Letting Tony Blair hang out to dry)
US department of education taking more federal role of school funding
Post war handling of Iraq (in general)
Leaving the ABM treaty
No push for a revised and proper Kyoto
Cheney as vice president


This is the list off the top of my head. Let's continue it together...

I pretty much agree with all of these, with the possible exception of "Post war handling of Iraq". Can't say I'm delighted with the way things are going there, but I don't know what could have been done differently that would have improved the situation.

I'm also not sure he has struck the proper balance with the economy. Although I agree that "what's good for big business is good for the country", there still needs to be adequate provisions for "the little guy". And I'm somewhat dubious about the government messing around with "overtime pay". But I don't know the details of the proposed plan, so I can't make very much comment.

 

[jimmy p]

I like what Bush has done about the Taliban, hey, it's not Al Qaeda but it's a start. Also Bush has affected matters here in Britain. Since the "War on Terror" campaign has started, the IRA have been very quiet. I'm not sure whether that is because they are genuinely scared or whether they feel that any action that they do will cut their funding from across the pond. (I mean the Irish families in USA... not sure who else "donates" to the IRA). Also had Bush not declared this WoT, would security in a lot of countries have increased?? I personally don't think that they would have been.

 

[schwarzchildradius]

schwarzchildradius are you incapable of doing anything but trolling? Ad hominem attack after another. Straw man argument after another.
Luckily your politics match that of the moderator, or maybe there would be a more likely chance you'd get regulated...like you should be.

I guess I might as well just delete this thread now, since you are intent on derailing it. It's as if some of you guys are actually HURT by someone expressing what they like about George Bush

Maybe you guys really are just negative...
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=22121

What you say shows that you don't read.

 

[enigma]

schwarzchildradius are you incapable of doing anything but trolling?

Posting his opinion is trolling? Last I checked, trolling was going into a forum saying absurd or inflamatory statements. In a politics forum, people aren't going to agree on the politics. Disagreeing is not trolling.

Ad hominem attack after another.

Did he insult your mother or something? Learn what the term means if you're going to use it, please.

Straw man argument after another.

Did he make an absurd characterisation about what YOU think and then knock it down? Learn what the term means if you're going to use it, please.

 

[hughes johnson]

Why don't you try to keep the attacks to a zero?? There's no need for you to come in here and start calling names.

Don't expect any mercy from a liberal. They preach it, but they don't practice it.

 

[member 5645]

Enigma, this thread was a request for people to post likes and dislikes about George Bush. If you too are incapable of doing so, kindly move onto another thread. I am founded in every statement I made, including this one. If you wish to continue this, PM me. Otherwise, quit ruining my thread.

 

[enigma]

Excuse me?

Take a look at the title under my avatar before you start telling me what to do, phatmonky.

You asked people to post likes and dislikes about Bush. Schwartz stated his opinion, and you resort to misused logical terms.

Do I have your permission to post here if I state what I don't like about Bush?

He uses taxpayer money to fund tax-excempt religious programs. Those programs are capable of discriminating in the hiring of people based on their religious, sexual, etc. orientations.
He hums and haws about his great taxcuts and how they're helping the American economy, all while lowering the funding to the states so they have to raise their taxes to make up the slack. Robbing Peter to pay Paul does not equal lower taxes.
He states that he wants to fight AIDS in Africa, but then funds religious programs which refuse to teach the use of or distribute condoms. Instead, they advocate abstinence only programs, which have been proven, even here in the States, not only NOT to help lower teen pregnancy, but actually INCREASE the transmission of STDs. "Sex is bad, mmkay... unless you're married, mmkay..." is not a valid anti AIDS program.
He proposes a grand vision for human space exploration, but then doesn't provide the funds to do so... oh, and I'm not happy that he wants to kill the Hubble. Several people in the space systems lab on my campus have done barely anything else for the last three months other than complain to anyone who will listen about the folly of that proposal.
I could go on

I am founded in every statement I made, including this one

You mean except for the misuse of the logical terms, right?

 

[ptex]

Woman's right to choose reproducive freedom is a

Kool name for abortion. Did you learn that at a Girl Scout meeting?
Blahahahaha

 

[motai]

Push for standardized tests for high school graduation

Jeb Bush was advocating this in Florida (Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test). These high-stakes tests end up demoralizing thousands of students by not letting them advance to the next grade (third graders are in the chopping block) or graduating high school (tenth grade and up).

The FCAT in particular has been alleged to be unfair to minority groups like blacks, arabs, and hispanics.

 

[RageSk8]

Push for standardized tests for high school graduation

Yeah, because the focus of education should be the ability to pass tests!

 

[jimmy p]

so I'm guessing that 1) No-one cares what i say or 2) you all agree with me... I NEVER have people discuss what I say on this forum... you all seem to caught up in your petty squabbles... I sometimes i think politics is taken too far, no matter who you vote for, when they come into power they ALWAYS lie. Same crap, different leader. (now i bet people respond...)

 

[member 5645]

Excuse me?

Take a look at the title under my avatar before you start telling me what to do, phatmonky.

Yes, I can see it. Ban me if you don't like it. Otherwise, quit adding to the derailment of a legit thread.

Again, you are welcome to PM me, but you're not welcome to continue to think you are somehow entitled to derail threads because you are a moderator. Again, ban me if you really care that much.

 

[member 5645]

so I'm guessing that 1) No-one cares what i say or 2) you all agree with me... I NEVER have people discuss what I say on this forum... you all seem to caught up in your petty squabbles... I sometimes i think politics is taken too far, no matter who you vote for, when they come into power they ALWAYS lie. Same crap, different leader. (now i bet people respond...)

I care what you say, and I appreciate that worthwhile input that seems difficult to get in any threads these days.

I like what Bush has done about the Taliban, hey, it's not Al Qaeda but it's a start. Also Bush has affected matters here in Britain. Since the "War on Terror" campaign has started, the IRA have been very quiet. I'm not sure whether that is because they are genuinely scared or whether they feel that any action that they do will cut their funding from across the pond. (I mean the Irish families in USA... not sure who else "donates" to the IRA). Also had Bush not declared this WoT, would security in a lot of countries have increased?? I personally don't think that they would have been.

While I would like to think that it was Bush's action doing it, I have a feeling it's more to do with Blair standing strong as well.

 

[jimmy p]

While I would like to think that it was Bush's action doing it, I have a feeling it's more to do with Blair standing strong as well.

It is only Blair standing by Bush, but if little were done about 9/11 I think nothing would have been done. The IRA situation was getting out of hand, it needed the American shove. The European world needed the shove as well, not just Britain.

 

[member 5645]

It is only Blair standing by Bush, but if little were done about 9/11 I think nothing would have been done. The IRA situation was getting out of hand, it needed the American shove. The European world needed the shove as well, not just Britain.

What policies of Bush's do you disagree with?
Were you for or against the Iraq war?

 

[cragwolf]

Simple. Reorgranize the spending. Medicare and Social Security need a reform for starters.

Show me your plans and show me exactly how they cut costs in this area. Then show me how these cuts will be enough to offset increasing military spending, paying for wars overseas, paying for fighting terrorism, and paying for tax cuts. You simply dismiss my concerns about where the money is going to come from by resorting to the typical republican mantra: e.g. reform welfare, reform social security, cut liberal programs. Details and numbers, please!

You mention wasteful government spending. It is very easy to point to a large government program and say, "there's some waste!" It is another thing to convince everyone that it is in fact wasteful, and it's yet another thing altogether to implement reforms that do away with the waste without harming the people who benefit from the program.

Why don't you try to keep the attacks to a zero?? There's no need for you to come in here and start calling names.

As for the attacks, Bush really is nuts, his policies are a disaster, and therefore people who support Bush are not using their brains. I'm not familiar enough with the US political system, but isn't there a way that you conservative voters could get together and choose a different Republican candidate for the coming election? I much prefer traditional conservatives like Pat Buchanan. The neocons are truly scary, in a nazi sort of way, while Bush doesn't really belong in either camp because he's too stupid to understand their respective philosophies.

 

[member 5645]

Yeah, because the focus of education should be the ability to pass tests!

What else do you think grades represent? What do you think they SHOULD represent?

No other way to see if that kid is actually learning and to hold both student and school accountable. Standardized testing is in place throughout my state, and it is LAUGHABLE to say the least - but sadly, there are still kids who can't pass it.

You have to take standardized tests all over the place in life to prove that you actually retained the knowledge. If one were to actually learn anything in high school, the tests would be a cakewalk.

 

[member 5645]

1>Show me your plans and show me exactly how they cut costs in this area. Then show me how these cuts will be enough to offset increasing military spending, paying for wars overseas, paying for fighting terrorism, and paying for tax cuts. You simply dismiss my concerns about where the money is going to come from by resorting to the typical republican mantra: e.g. reform welfare, reform social security, cut liberal programs. Details and numbers, please!
You mention wasteful government spending. It is very easy to point to a large government program and say, "there's some waste!" It is another thing to convince everyone that it is in fact wasteful, and it's yet another thing altogether to implement reforms that do away with the waste without harming the people who benefit from the program.



2>As for the attacks, Bush really is nuts, his policies are a disaster, and therefore people who support Bush are not using their brains. I'm not familiar enough with the US political system, but isn't there a way that you conservative voters could get together and choose a different Republican candidate for the coming election? I much prefer traditional conservatives like Pat Buchanan. The neocons are truly scary, in a nazi sort of way, while Bush doesn't really belong in either camp because he's too stupid to understand their respective philosophies.

1>I couldn't possibly care enough to pull those numbers for an internet message board that I use to pass the time. I can however say that 385 BILLION that doesn't show a drastic increase in care for the elderly is money wasted...especially when that 385 BILLION turned out to be 550 BILLION. That bill alone could have been trimmed to pay for Iraq in it's whole. As for Iraq, we are paying contractors as much as 1000/day to be there- instead of Iraqis a few dollars to rebuild it themselves. There is wasteful spending all around. If you want all of it, google! And I agree, you are right that it's easier said than done, but someone has to mention it to begin with.
Here's another: http://www.cagw.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=7578&AddInterest=1048
15,000 spent on healthcare, 74 MILLION spent on paperwork! Wooh to efficient government!
Then there's social security. Here's an article on how Galveston, a city right near me, opted out of social security and has been loving it ever since. http://www.libertyhaven.com/politicsandcurrentevents/healthcarewelfareorsocialsecurity/galveston.shtml Yet everyone is too afraid to dare look at alternative options like this.

And taking away from ANY program is going to harm someone, so it's not very logical to say that you have to reorganize without harming anyone. You simply have to decide who needs what the most.
2>Well I have no brains then I guess since I support some of the things Bush does. And yes, there is a way we conservative voters can get a different nomination- sadly, Bush hasn't caused enough ripples to get another nomination to be a viable option for many, especially the many with lots of campaign donations. I would love to see Colin Powell, John McCain, or Rudolph Guliani in his place instead. This is just a thread for us wacky conservatives to discuss what we like and don't like, and what we'd like to see

 

[Adam]

Do you mean those tax cuts for the wealthy folks who can afford to invest in US companies? Yeah, they do a great job for the poorer majority.

 

[Zero]

This is over. Phatmonky, this is a warning.