- #1
nightcleaner
I wanted to bring this forward from another thread because I think we may be getting at an important point regarding dimensionality. The last post in the thread is quoted below:
Consider the three spatial basis lines, x, y, z. If there is velocity in x, then there is Lorenz contraction in x. The y and z basis lines are unaffected by velocity in x.
Real objects are always extended in all three spatial basis lines, as well as in time. For this reason every part of any real object will experience contraction due to velocity. Contraction in x will be distributed uniformly throughout the object. The sphere of the object (obtained by rotating an object through every possible rotation at every possible point in the object) will be flattened in x.
Since real objects are always extended in x, y, z, and t, we may propose the generalization that real objects are always extended in every available basis line. If there are extra dimensions which cannot be expressed using combinations of x,y,z, and t, then every real object will have some extension in the basis line of that dimension.
Now when we speak of dimensions as labled [tex]{x_1, x_2, x_3...x_n}[/tex] we may presume that x,y, and z are included in the innumeration, so that perhaps x is the same as [tex]x_1[/tex], y is the same as [tex]x_2[/tex] and so on. Since all the extra dimensions in string theory are said to be spatial, I am presumeing that t is a special case and is not included in the set as an [tex]x_n[/tex].
Then since there is no distinction made as to which subscript is to represent which basis line (x could as well be [tex]x_2[/tex] and y could be [tex]x_1[/tex] we must assume that all members of the set of [tex]x_n[/tex] are equivalent, so that each [tex]x_n[/tex] is a basis line. Then it follows that if velocity is in the direction of any x, there is contraction in that x, but none of the other members of the set is contracted.
This is to say that, if the above reasoning holds, every subscripted x is perpendicular to every other subscripted x. That is, they form an orthagonal set. We cannot easily imagine an orthagonal set of spatial basis lines with more than three members, but it seems apparent that this is what we mean when we speak of higher dimensionalities.
However if we relax the rule that orthagonal axis must be at 90 degrees to each other, we can imagine more than three axis in ordinary space. We can build a representative structure containing more than three axis, with the rule intact that each axis represents an independent dimension, which does not experience contraction when motion occurs along one of the other basis lines.
In fact, we can represent higher dimensionalities on a two dimensional surface by drawing a circle and dividing the circumference into 2n points, where n is the number of dimensions required. For a three dimensional space, this results in the familiar figure called a hexagram, in which the cord of the endpoints is equal to the radius of the circle.
In this scheme, motion along one axis will result in contraction along that axis, but no contraction along any other axis. If motion could be carried to the extreme, the axis would contract to a point, and the circle would divided into a figure shaped like the infinity sign. If we were carrying out this operation on a model in three spatial dimensions, the result would be a torus.
This action would be equivalent to adding a hole to a topological figure, or to punching a hole through the spacetime fabric. Of course we are forbidden in practical terms from doing so with any real object.
There is however another way to analyse the geometry of higher dimensions. I would like to go on from here to explore the possiblitiy that time is not a special case but is to be included in the [tex]x_n[/tex] set, which makes rational sense, since if there is motion along one of the basis lines, time must be extended along that basis. In fact, time must be extended along any basis line which can accommodate the sense of motion. This is in concordance with the principle of spacetime equivalence due to Einstein and Minkowski. Then we must consider each axis in x as containing within it an axis in t.
I hope to go on with this idea in another post. Any comments are welcome, especially those directed to challenging this line of reason.
Thanks,
Richard T. Harbaugh,
Nightcleaner
selfAdjoint said:The other dimensions are in addition to the usual three space dimensions, so insead of saying x, y, and z, we say [tex]x_1, x_2, x_3, x_4, ...[/tex], as many as we need. They all combine to make multidimensional directions just as the x, y, and z do, and the direction is still a line in multidimensional spacetime so the Lorentz effect works along that direction just as it does on any direction in 3-space.
The relativistic account of spinning bodies requires the full power of the Lorentz transforms; I don't think you can really work it out with separate length contraction and time dilation as in the case of a simple linear speed difference. But I'll try.
If the sphere in your example is spinning in y, then its equator lies in the x-z plane, and at rest would be a circle. Leaving acceleration (another complication) aside and just speaking of velocity in the x direction relative to some observer, that circle would appear flattened*, and if the sphere were far enough from the observer that we could neglect parallax, so would all the "latitude" circles in planes parallel to the equatorial plane. Meanwhile the spinning would as you say produce oblateness so that in any plane through the y-axis the circular outline of the sphere becomes an ellipse; this widens out the equator circle, which (maybe) would scale up but still retain its flattened shape. So this non qualittative work through (which you should not rely on) suggest that the spphere will become something like a general ellipsoid, elliptical in the x-z, the x-y and the y-z planes.
*Take the equation of the uncontracted circle to be [tex]x^2 + z^2 = 1[/tex], the unit circle at the origin in the x-z plane. If the velocity in the x-direction is +v then the x-contracted value relative to the observer is
[tex]\sqrt{1 - \frac{v^2}{c^2}}x[/tex]
which we take to be uniform across the z diameter (this is the simplification that let's us use the simple formulas). So the contraction depends only on the speed, not on x, and we can write the equation of the contracted circle as
[tex] \gamma x^2 + x^2 = 1[/tex], where [tex]\gamma = \sqrt{1 - \frac{v^2}{c^2}}[/tex]
and this is the equation of an ellipse.
Consider the three spatial basis lines, x, y, z. If there is velocity in x, then there is Lorenz contraction in x. The y and z basis lines are unaffected by velocity in x.
Real objects are always extended in all three spatial basis lines, as well as in time. For this reason every part of any real object will experience contraction due to velocity. Contraction in x will be distributed uniformly throughout the object. The sphere of the object (obtained by rotating an object through every possible rotation at every possible point in the object) will be flattened in x.
Since real objects are always extended in x, y, z, and t, we may propose the generalization that real objects are always extended in every available basis line. If there are extra dimensions which cannot be expressed using combinations of x,y,z, and t, then every real object will have some extension in the basis line of that dimension.
Now when we speak of dimensions as labled [tex]{x_1, x_2, x_3...x_n}[/tex] we may presume that x,y, and z are included in the innumeration, so that perhaps x is the same as [tex]x_1[/tex], y is the same as [tex]x_2[/tex] and so on. Since all the extra dimensions in string theory are said to be spatial, I am presumeing that t is a special case and is not included in the set as an [tex]x_n[/tex].
Then since there is no distinction made as to which subscript is to represent which basis line (x could as well be [tex]x_2[/tex] and y could be [tex]x_1[/tex] we must assume that all members of the set of [tex]x_n[/tex] are equivalent, so that each [tex]x_n[/tex] is a basis line. Then it follows that if velocity is in the direction of any x, there is contraction in that x, but none of the other members of the set is contracted.
This is to say that, if the above reasoning holds, every subscripted x is perpendicular to every other subscripted x. That is, they form an orthagonal set. We cannot easily imagine an orthagonal set of spatial basis lines with more than three members, but it seems apparent that this is what we mean when we speak of higher dimensionalities.
However if we relax the rule that orthagonal axis must be at 90 degrees to each other, we can imagine more than three axis in ordinary space. We can build a representative structure containing more than three axis, with the rule intact that each axis represents an independent dimension, which does not experience contraction when motion occurs along one of the other basis lines.
In fact, we can represent higher dimensionalities on a two dimensional surface by drawing a circle and dividing the circumference into 2n points, where n is the number of dimensions required. For a three dimensional space, this results in the familiar figure called a hexagram, in which the cord of the endpoints is equal to the radius of the circle.
In this scheme, motion along one axis will result in contraction along that axis, but no contraction along any other axis. If motion could be carried to the extreme, the axis would contract to a point, and the circle would divided into a figure shaped like the infinity sign. If we were carrying out this operation on a model in three spatial dimensions, the result would be a torus.
This action would be equivalent to adding a hole to a topological figure, or to punching a hole through the spacetime fabric. Of course we are forbidden in practical terms from doing so with any real object.
There is however another way to analyse the geometry of higher dimensions. I would like to go on from here to explore the possiblitiy that time is not a special case but is to be included in the [tex]x_n[/tex] set, which makes rational sense, since if there is motion along one of the basis lines, time must be extended along that basis. In fact, time must be extended along any basis line which can accommodate the sense of motion. This is in concordance with the principle of spacetime equivalence due to Einstein and Minkowski. Then we must consider each axis in x as containing within it an axis in t.
I hope to go on with this idea in another post. Any comments are welcome, especially those directed to challenging this line of reason.
Thanks,
Richard T. Harbaugh,
Nightcleaner