What is the reason for galaxies fading in the distant future?

In summary: Can you point me at an explanation of this effect as I would like to understand it. I have come across gravitational time dilation in association with mass but not the expansion of the universe before.The cosmological horizon is the point at which the expansion of the universe has had such a profound effect on the rate at which we receive photons that it becomes impossible to measure anything beyond that point. So if we extrapolate the results of observations beyond the cosmological horizon, we're not really estimating anything, we're just guessing.
  • #36
sunrah said:
Any answer to the question you ask depends on your cosmological model. Our universe is accelerating, this means that the Hubble parameter is not constant. That is essentially why we can still see objects outside the Hubble radius
[itex]
d_{H} = \frac{c}{H_{0}}
[/itex]
where [itex]H_{0}[/itex] is the value of the Hubble parameter at the present time. If the Hubble parameter were constant, the Hubble radius (~14 billion light years) would correspond to the size of the visible universe and the time required for light to reach us from this boundary would be the age of the universe (~14 billion years). As it is the size of the visible universe is much greater ~47 billion light years. The reason we see these regions is because how the value of the scale factor, which describes the expansion of our universe, has changed until the present day. If our universe were to stop expanding suddenly, light from the particle horizon region would take about 47 billion years to reach us, but of course galaxies located inside the particle horizon would not "fade", because the universe had ceased expanding.

What you call fading is galaxies leaving the particle horizon, that is crossing the boundary of the visible universe, due to cosmic (accelerated) expansion. The time t required for a galaxy to leave the particle horizon from time t0 where v(t0)=c, depends on the evolution of the scale factor (and therefore Hubble parameter) in the future. This evolution is described by cosmological models like the concordance model. Also, I think standard version of Hubble law needs to be modified as this only applies to low redshift values, i.e. z<<1.

What you really need to understand is that Hubble radius is not a physical boundary - it doesn't really mean much in our particular universe. The particle horizon is the important one. And we can see high redshift galaxies due to the evolution history of our universe. As the universe expands galaxies will leave the particle horizon, eventually all that we will be able to see is our local group of galaxies.
Thank you for your help; is there an equation that describes how H changes with time?
Also does it take longer for larger galaxies to leave the particle boundary? And why does the time taken for galaxies to leave the particle boundary vary?
 
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  • #37
Einstein's Cat said:
is there an equation that describes how H changes with time?

Yes, this is the famous Friedmann equation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedmann_equations

This is the foundation of modern cosmology. To solve it, you must assume a world model. The standard cosmology is the concordance model. if your really interested in learning this and have some physics knowledge I suggest "An Introduction to Modern Comology" by Andrew Liddle. It explains things pretty well.

does it take longer for larger galaxies to leave the particle boundary?
It shouldn't. The motion of the galaxies that we're concerned with here is not peculiar, hmm that is the galaxies aren't actually moving - it is the expansion of intergalactic space that is accelerating therefore you shouldn't need to consider things like inertial mass.

why does the time taken for galaxies to leave the particle boundary vary?
Again it is the expansion that cause recession velocity, therefore the expansion, which is governed by the scale factor, depends on the time-evolution of the scale factor. The Hubble parameter also depends on the scale factor. The scale factor evolves differently in different world models.
 
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  • #38
sunrah said:
Yes, this is the famous Friedmann equation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedmann_equations

This is the foundation of modern cosmology. To solve it, you must assume a world model. The standard cosmology is the concordance model. if your really interested in learning this and have some physics knowledge I suggest "An Introduction to Modern Comology" by Andrew Liddle. It explains things pretty well.It shouldn't. The motion of the galaxies that we're concerned with here is not peculiar, hmm that is the galaxies aren't actually moving - it is the expansion of intergalactic space that is accelerating therefore you shouldn't need to consider things like inertial mass.Again it is the expansion that cause recession velocity, therefore the expansion, which is governed by the scale factor, depends on the time-evolution of the scale factor. The Hubble parameter also depends on the scale factor. The scale factor evolves differently in different world models.
Apologises for the lack of clarity, but when I meant a larger galaxy, I meant a galaxy with a larger radius; would it take longer to fade away as surely a galaxy of half the radius would pass the boundary quicker?
 
  • #39
Sunrah, there are a few inaccuracies in your statements, e.g.
sunrah said:
Our universe is accelerating, this means that the Hubble parameter is not constant.
Actually, a constant Hubble parameter is the sign of an accelerating universe. A non-accelerating universe needs the Hubble parameter to decrease until it vanishes as time goes on.
sunrah said:
If the Hubble parameter were constant, the Hubble radius (~14 billion light years) would correspond to the size of the visible universe and the time required for light to reach us from this boundary would be the age of the universe (~14 billion years).
No, I think you are mixing up the Hubble radius, the particle horizon (observable universe radius) and the cosmological event horizon (communications radius). They presently all have different proper distance values and only the Hubble radius and the cosmological horizon will eventually end up the same and constant at around 17 billion light years. The particle horizon will increase without limit.
In the graph below, R is the Hubble radius, D_Hor the cosmological horizon and D_par(ticle) the radius of the observable universe.
upload_2016-6-7_7-21-19.png


In the light of this, please reconsider your response to Einstein's Cat.
 
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