What is the top speed of a fencing weapon?

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In summary, there is a discussion about the speed of fencing and the claims made about it. Some people believe that the tip of a fencing weapon is the fastest in sport, while others argue that it is the flick in foil or the chest cut in saber. There are also discussions about which weapon is the fastest, with foilists arguing for foil and saber fencers assuming saber is the fastest. The weight, flexibility, and balance of the different blades are also considered in this debate. A suggestion is made to measure the force and material properties of each blade to calculate the maximum velocity. The conversation also includes a comparison between a rapier and a firearm, with the conclusion that technology and stealth are perhaps more effective in a real-life confrontation. The poster
  • #36
nismaratwork said:
Generally speaking, the forward lunge is the maximum energy delivery mechanism, because you're putting the energy of your lunging body behind the blow. The thing is, fencing is really nothing at all like real sword-fighting, so there is no practical "killing" blow. With a slashing weapon such as a Kilij, Katana, or Saber, the main strikes are eightfold: vertical down and up, lateral across and back, and the 4 diagonals in between.

I checked with my friend across the hall, and he assured me of two things: 1) any competant swordsmap can usually deflect a straightforward "killing blow" 2) any competant swordsman can occasionally render a crosswise killing blow.

In short between expert swordsmen, it's usually a draw.
 
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  • #37
mugaliens said:
I checked with my friend across the hall, and he assured me of two things: 1) any competant swordsmap can usually deflect a straightforward "killing blow" 2) any competant swordsman can occasionally render a crosswise killing blow.

In short between expert swordsmen, it's usually a draw.

It depends on the swords employed, the reach and athleticism of the swordsmen, and armor. In practice, history shows that there were great warriors such as Miyamoto Musashi, or William Wallace (to draw from radically different weapons and styles), who repeatedly bested opponents. Musashi tended to fight duels with a Katana (later in Iaido style, then with Bokken), and it seems he never lost. Wallace was a master with the Claymore, and he was fighting well armored foes who were not poorly trained.

I don't know what qualities make such a fighter, but in a duel or war, a draw is not an option. You simply rinse and repeat until you win, or die. In many ways, regardless of technique, this is the great difference between fencing, and fighting... the former deals in single "points", but the latter allows for so much more.

Anyway, to the point you were responding to, the lunge is interesting in that you cross a large distance in a very short period of time, and deliver a great amount of energy to the target. The downside is that you have to commit, and it leaves you open. If someone tries a crosswise slash with a Kilij, there is a similar opening, but the target is likely to attempt to dodge or block, then will need to recover. With a foil, saber, or epee, this is just not the case, as they are all light weapons. Fencing is a fun sport, but it really has nothing at all to do with combat, and the notion of a "killing blow" is just not applicable.
 

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